1993 Mazda Protege GT Log

[Gen1GT]

I'm going to start sharing everything I do to my car online and publicly. I want people to see what can be done to a Protege, at what cost, and with what gains. I'm going to tell you about my car, how's it's been modded, and what the wheel horsepower and 1/4mile times are. I'm going to do a baseline run, then EVERY mod after that will be dynoed, to give you an idea what mods might be best for you.

    Engine Mods                                  Price  
       Funnel type pod filter                        $60
       OBX KV2013 muffler                       $350
       Genie 2.5" resonator                       $100
       2.5" hi-flow cat                               $100
       Full custom 2.5" exhaust                 $650 
       Power Steering removal                   free
       Advanced ignition timing                  free


    Engine Mods             %

[Gen1GT]

I've got an appointment for the dyno at 11am on Friday. The moment of truth. I can't wait.

[Mike_Moss]

Which dyno?

[Gen1GT]

DL Motorsports Dynojet in Burlington. Pretty close to Hamilton, and $75. Too bad it's just a baseline, no mods. I'm going to do another run after clutch/flywheel install. Then 14 Degree ignition advance and RX7 AFM. All numbers will be posted.

[Gen1GT]

Had my car weighed at a public transport truck weigh scale yesterday. MUCH more than I thought. You'll be suprised by this Mike. 2300lbs! It was actually 2360, but I subtracted the weight of the fuel in my car(gas is .67 the weight of water. water weighs 1kg/L). Which means that BEFORE my car's 150lb diet, it weighed....GAH...2450lbs!! http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif

They said the scale is accurate within 20lbs. I'm gonna assume it's 20lbs heavier than it should be.

[CarDemon]

GCPT COLDRAM II™ is not even a consideration man?
Don't worry, I have been a lil' quiet around here lately due to the reason that I am doing overtime in the GCPT LABORATORY. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

What your doing is great and it can finally put some wee arguements to rest?

[tiwing]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CarDemon @ Feb. 06 2004,11:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What your doing is great and it can finally put some wee arguements to rest?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Or bring some old arguments up again - i.e. how do you dyno an intake when airflow doesn't match what you get on the street? or the old SRI versus CAI debate. Yup, they'll be good times.

Josh, are you going to put on a ram air hood? at speed it should add some ponies for you - (but again, how do you dyno something that only has impact at speed....?) i'm curious what your plans are and your timelines for getting all this stuff done...

[Mike_Moss]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Gen1GT @ Feb. 06 2004,08:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Had my car weighed at a public transport truck weigh scale yesterday. MUCH more than I thought. You'll be suprised by this Mike. 2300lbs! It was actually 2360, but I subtracted the weight of the fuel in my car(gas is .67 the weight of water. water weighs 1kg/L). Which means that BEFORE my car's 150lb diet, it weighed....GAH...2450lbs!! http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif

They said the scale is accurate within 20lbs. I'm gonna assume it's 20lbs heavier than it should be.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's lighter than I thought. hehe. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif


Where did you get it weighed? How much? How'd it work?

[Gen1GT]

You thought our car weighed more than 2450lbs?? Anywho, I got it weighed at some place in Hamilton. I forget the name, but it's right at the very end of Victoria st, at the harbour. It's a tractor trailer weighing station, and it's normally $5. No big whup, but the chick did it for free for me anyways. I just drove up onto the scale, got out and went inside, and she wrote down the weight for free. Nice lady. If want a printout, it's the 5 bucks.

[Sky_high]

Imagine how heavy your car weighs when you are driving the car!!! http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif (J/K Josh)

[Gen1GT]

Ok, the low-down on the dyno. I went in at 11 this morning and had her strapped in. I did 6 runs in all. First two runs were with my K&amp;N filter in(and with my OBX muffler and power steering removal). My best of the first two runs got me 110.5hp and 106.8torque. I had lots of time, so I put in a factory Fram filter and did two more runs. Now THIS gets interesting. 110.9hp and 108.2torque. How do you like THEM apples? Ok, so WAS the Fram filter better? We did the 5th and 6th runs with NO filter. 111.2hp and 107.6torque.

What conclusions can we draw from this? We can conclude that both filters are flowing enough air for 111hp, and that the restriction is after the filter. Mostly likely the Air Flow Meter. We CANNOT conclude that the K&amp;N was worse, even though the numbers are slightly lower. But 1/2hp on any given dyno run means nothing. The only way we could see which filter was better, would be on a flow bench. One of the next mods I'm doing, is custom intake with RX7 AFM and APEXi filter. This should free it up quite a bit.

I believe my muffler has freed up some torque, since max torque is at 4000rpm and max horsepower is at 6000rpm. Down a bit from factory. This means I should be shifting sooner at the drag strip.

[Gen1GT]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sky_high @ Feb. 06 2004,1:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Imagine how heavy your car weighs when you are driving the car!!! http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif (J/K Josh)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Any good, skinny drivers out there wanna drag my car this year?

[Logan]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Gen1GT @ Feb. 06 2004,1:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Any good, skinny drivers out there wanna drag my car this year?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ya he's skinny, but he's not that good.

[sjdmp5]

You have some work ahead of you. In order to run a 13 second quarter mile in a 2400lb car you will need to be making at least 200whp. Better bolt on the turbo now. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[cruisinblackp5]

Its possible to run 13s NA, just harder

[Sky_high]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Gen1GT @ Feb. 06 2004,1:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sky_high @ Feb. 06 2004,1:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Imagine how heavy your car weighs when you are driving the car!!! http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif (J/K Josh)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Any good, skinny drivers out there wanna drag my car this year?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hmmmm, let me think my car dyno'd at 92.2 Hp and 100.8 Ibs/torque and it's heavier than yours. AAAhhh, not yet!! A couple of small mods and then it's.....YOU'RE ON!!!!

Oh and Doug...I will take your Speed on in my NEW secret weapon http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Let the 'draggin' begin!!!

[Gen1GT]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sjdmp5 @ Feb. 06 2004,3:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You have some work ahead of you. In order to run a 13 second quarter mile in a 2400lb car you will need to be making at least 200whp. Better bolt on the turbo now.  http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
2300lb car..I thank you. The good news, is that for some reason my car seems to be quick. Yes, it's a lot lower than the 124 the computer program figured, but 111 isn't a bad baseline for my car. Remember it's only a 1.8, and it's a better baseline than anyone else in this club got NA. I've got a good guy doing most of the work, which helps. This guy has some pretty serious cars he's working on right now, and he's just as pumped as I am, to see my car hit the 13s all motor. If I'm doing 16.3@84 with 111hp. There's no reason that when 150lbs lighter, 8.9lb flywheel/stage 3 clutch, full 2.5&quot; exhaust and drag radials, there's no reason I won't be in the 14s. That extra second is going to be hard.....

[KDawgONE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Gen1GT @ Feb. 06 2004,4:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Remember it's only a 1.8, and it's a better baseline than anyone else in this club got NA.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Based on???

[Gen1GT]

Based on Mark's 94, Jason's 105 and Mike's 107. BALEE-DAT.! C'mon, you gotta admit, that although it's lower than my predicted(stupid horsepower website) 124, 111 isn't bad. Only 89 more to go http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[CarDemon]

Now that Josh has got me thinking, why don't we do a TPC Sport Compact Challenge ?

Perhaps we can do skid pad tests, 1/4 miles, braking slaloms, fuel economy tests and some others. We can all do vague comparisons of our individual selections of springs, intakes, exhaust components, electronic wizardry, tires etc.

And by the way, I would recommend one of the two mouthy tapeworm bandits[/B] to drive your car for less ot no weight at all. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif

[MP5Navy]

Dork....
I'll kick your ass with my 19's, body kit, ICE, and a slim chick in the passenger side - ya fat bastard...

You talked a lot of shit then and you still talk shit now...LOL

[Gen1GT]

Haha Dave...bring it on. I smoked you before, I'll smoke you again. Even with nitrous. Your car will NEVER be faster than mine. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[superdave]

Can you guys try any harder to compensate for something that your lacking? http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[MP5Navy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (superdave @ Feb. 07 2004,4:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Can you guys try any harder to compensate for something that your lacking?  http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Me and Josh compensating?
What on earth for? Both of us have bigger bellies than you and we also have bigger breasts than your wife!

As for Josh... You beating me? In your dreams. Unless your on the Atkin's Subway wrap diet there is no way... http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Gen1GT]

Remember when we were racing in the service roads that one night with you, Jean, Chops and myself? Haha...we thought I had some kind of fire in my car, but it was just my brakes smoking! http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif

Ya, it's a good thing I dropped 150lbs off my car. I was a lot easier than doing what Jared did... http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif

[gdcwatt]

Some thoughts about your new wheel &amp; tire combo. The 205/40-17 (vs 185/60-14) has a diameter increase of 0.8&quot;, and a circumference increase of 2.3&quot;, or 3.22%. Your effective gearing is that much &quot;taller&quot; with the larger sized tires.

I take it that all your dyno runs were made with just one set of rubber, and, after all, whp is whp. I noted that your 1/4 mile time was up by 0.5 seconds with the larger rubber, and your trap speed was down by two mph. Do you attribute all the change to the tires? Sure, you can probably hook-up better with the wider rubber, which works well for getting across an intersection first, but the increase in diameter and the (likely) increase in weight from the heavier wheel and tire combination is hurting you in the longer run (ie. once your going). Going around corners is a totally different thing altogether.

Thanks for letting us know what you're doing. Why don't a group of us chip in, say $10 each, so that the club can by a Gtech-Pro? air intake, and everyone else can get some on-the-road test results.

[Gen1GT]

gdcwatt. Yes, the larger wheels was EXACTLY why my car was slower. Like you said, heavier wheels have more rotational inertia(It's like having a heavier flywheel), and the gearing is taller. Half a second is a lot of time to add/remove at the drag strip. I actually sold my 17s for that reason. They were the only bling on my car, and all other than the higher grip and better braking, they just slowed it down. That's ok, cause I'm getting R-compounds and those will be better than the Ecsta 712s.

[Gen1GT]

I have my new OBX muffler, high-flow cat and resonator. Will be installed and dynoed next week. (All 2.5&quot; of course)

The guy at Northern Performance in Hamilton tells me that 2.5&quot; exhaust will be too much for my car. Just goes to show you that just because you work there, doesn't mean you know everything about performance.

[Mike_Moss]

So you're getting cat-back (incl cat) 2.5&quot;? What about before? Mandrel? Stainless? NP charging you more for 2.5&quot;?


I still find this whole exhaust thing very interesting...can't wait to see what you and that dude in MTL run.

[ChopstickHero]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Gen1GT @ Feb. 07 2004,7:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Remember when we were racing in the service roads that one night with you, Jean, Chops and myself? Haha...we thought I had some kind of fire in my car, but it was just my brakes smoking! http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
i've seen 2 brakes on fire/smoking before... Josh's Gen1 and my friend's S2000 after 5 laps at shannonville .... http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Gen1GT]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (mike_moss @ Feb. 12 2004,10:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So you're getting cat-back (incl cat) 2.5&quot;?  What about before?  Mandrel?  Stainless?  NP charging you more for 2.5&quot;?


I still find this whole exhaust thing very interesting...can't wait to see what you and that dude in MTL run.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It's going to be from down pipe back for now. 2.5&quot; Stainless, with mandrel bends. I want to see what kind of gains my header is going to give me, and at what RPM, so I want to do them separately. It'll give people an idea still, what gains can be expected from a 'cat-back'(although mine is larger tubing, and a highflow cat, so I'll see more power), and from a header.

I was going to do the clutch/flywheel first, but since it's not chattering at the moment, I'll leave it for a bit.

[Naveed74]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Gen1GT @ Feb. 12 2004,10:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have my new OBX muffler, high-flow cat and resonator. Will be installed and dynoed next week. (All 2.5&quot; of course)

 The guy at Northern Performance in Hamilton tells me that 2.5&quot; exhaust will be too much for my car. Just goes to show you that just because you work there, doesn't mean you know everything about performance.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Just a question / observation here.

Won't a 2.5 inch exhast with the mods you currently have cause a backflow problem?

I think thats the point the guy at N.P. was making.

Correct me if I am wrong here...

http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif

[Gen1GT]

I'm not sure I'll have much of a problem with backflow. If I do, it'll be a low-rpm kind of thing, which can easily be remedied with cam gears. I have an exhaust leak right now, and need to get it done, so I might as well have it done once, and have it done right. I want my exhaust to be able to keep up with my future mods, so no point in doing it twice.

You're right though. I'm obviously going to have an exhaust side flow bias. So maybe my next mod might be my custom intake. I know the stock air flow meter is a severe bottleneck, and the RX7 AFM has freed up 5hp on Miatas.

I'll have a dyno chart printed up, that has my best baseline run, and the run with the new exhaust. Stock valve overlap is only 14 degrees, so honestly, I'm not predicting a problem anyway.

[Gen1GT]

I just realized what you meant about backflow. If anything, with free flowing exhaust, it would aid in scavaging. With my stock intake system, that's where the restriction is. With the exhaust side so open, my air/fuel and/or exhaust gases will take the path of least resistance and flow out that side.

Correction: my car has 19 degrees of overlap, not 14.

If someone were to get an aftermarket intake system, they'd have an intake side flow bias, which would cause the pressurized exhaust side to want to flow backwards. Not the other way around. I'm reading &quot;How to Build Horsepower&quot; by David Vizard right now. He hooked Psi guage up to the exhuast system of some American hot rod, and got 15psi of back pressure. 15 PSI!! Imagine how much that would want to push back through the intake. Ideal backpressure would be zero, but acceptable levels should be below 2psi. (He got 40hp from ONLY a high flow cat and muffler on that car...it was a stock impala or something like that)

[Gen1GT]

Exhaust was done today, and if you read my &quot;Under the Hood&quot; contribution, you'll know it went well. When you have a gameplan and you know what you're doing, things will come out well. My exhaust is something else. It's downright scary. A bit loud from inside, but I'm not building a Rolls Royce here. There isn't any noticable loss in torque, and high-rpm power is downright ferocious. It's getting dynoed on Friday, along with advanced ignition timing, and I'm guessing 8-10hp for the exhaust and another 2-3 for the 14 degrees ignition advance.

 Man, it's nice when things come together....

I'd also like to give props to Mike at DL Motorsports in Burlington. He takes pride in his work, and it shows. Excellent exhaust work. Can't wait to get my header done.

[Gen1GT]

Did first dyno run after custom exhaust. There was a gain of 3hp peak and 5hp@7000rpm. There was a 2hp loss at 2500rpm, but who cares? Since I had already done the muffler, we're gonna guess 6 peak hp total for exhaust.

I also advanced the ignition timing. Turns out it was already at 16 degrees. Which may explain why my car was faster than it should have been. We played with the timing a bit after that. There were HUGE losses(like 7hp and 7lb/ft of torqe) when run at 10 degrees advance(stock timing). We bumped it up to 18 and had a nice 1.5hp and 1lb/ft gain through the entire rev range. Total horsepower is now 114.9@6500 and torque is now 109.1@4500.

[Mike_Moss]

I still gots more torque. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ...errr...HAD more torque. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Gen1GT]

My battery(well, a new Redtop) is being relocated to the trunk today. This will make room for my custom intake. It sure is getting sparce in my engine bay.


update:Battery has been relocated using 4 guage wire. A redtop in the trunk looks sweet. Can't wait to give someone a boost.

&quot;Hey buddy, can you give me a boost?&quot;
&quot;Sure, just let me back up to your car and open my trunk.&quot;

hehe

[Gen1GT]

I have my RX7 Air Flow Meter, and I've already adjusted the spring tension so it runs ok. I need to lower the idle just a tad still though. Now all I need is a filter adaptor and a filter. I might make the adaptor myself. I'm going to get the APEX-i filter, as I've heard it flows the best AND filters the best.

[Gen1GT]

I've had my RX7 AFM for two weeks now, but it's taking quite a while to get my mounting bracket for the air filter. I was hoping to have it, and dyno it on Friday, but it looks as though I'm going to have to wait til next week. I'm getting the A'PEXi filter, since I've heard and read so much about it.

[Mike_Moss]

I have an RX7 VAF for sale if anyone's interested.

[Gen1GT]

Ok, this is FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!! I just went to modify the first page of this thread, and EVERYTHING GOT FUCKING ERASED PAST A FEW SENTENCES! What the fuck's up with this bullshit....

It took me so long to create that, and keep it updated. Now I don't even fucking care about my stupid online log. If anyone wants to see what horsepower numbers shit gets, they can just ask me...

Stupid fucking, shitty assed, horse's balls server bullshit!

[CrazyCaker]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Gen1GT @ Mar. 25 2004,12:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok, this is FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!! I just went to modify the first page of this thread, and EVERYTHING GOT FUCKING ERASED PAST A FEW SENTENCES! What the fuck's up with this bullshit....

 It took me so long to create that, and keep it updated. Now I don't even fucking care about my stupid online log. If anyone wants to see what horsepower numbers shit gets, they can just ask me...

 Stupid fucking, shitty assed, horse's balls server bullshit![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I know, it's getting fucking ridiculous! I suggested to Rowan that the board software be upgraded (considering it is running a 3 yr. old ver.), but I guess we'll just have to live with it like this. http://ib2.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Mike_Moss]

I told you to use a blogger account.

[Mark.T]

Gen1GT,

Real shame you're not continueing with your log.  I was reading the topic with interest, wondering how you'd be getting on with realising the 13 secs target!

I'm trying to decide what to do with my 1800 BP05 engine.  I want to stay NA.  There doesn't seem to be a lot of guidance on these engines as far as NA work is concerned, though I've seen Jap MX5 racers with BP05 pushing 270bhp NA.

How are you getting on?


Mark

Admin: Club 323F (http://www.club323f.com)

[smoke]

I am new to the club. I have a 93 sohc. I dont know why I love this car so much but it fly's. Cant wait to see the results on the mods. Do you guys run in hamilton at all? Thats my home town..

[Mike_Moss]

Josh (Gen1GT - the creator of this thread) is in Hamilton. Pass by Zizzo/Mor Car Wash on Main right near the highway and he may be working at the car wash.

[superdave]

I work in hamilton at Northern Motorsport :)

[7plymaple]

Josh just wandering how much your car weighs now?

[Gen1GT]

It's 2250 in race trim.

[Mike_Moss]

Hawt! :)

[Gen1GT]

Hawt! :)

Slut, when you coming to see that pamphlet? So far Mike's the only one I've told, but at the auto show, I bought an original 1991 Mazda Protege brouchure, which includes the GT's, and all options and specs. Turns out there WAS a Protege GT automatic option...

[7plymaple]

Slut, when you coming to see that pamphlet? So far Mike's the only one I've told, but at the auto show, I bought an original 1991 Mazda Protege brouchure, which includes the GT's, and all options and specs. Turns out there WAS a Protege GT automatic option...

Cool. Wonder how much of those were made?

[Gen1GT]

Must have been very, very few. We've heard about only one(but nobody has seen it). Mike had called someone about a GT one time, and the guy was telling him it was automatic. Mike had to ask the guy to go out and check again, because at the time, we didn't think they came in auto.

[Mike_Moss]

It probably wasn't an automatic...that was probably only available '90-'91.

[Gen1GT]

Oh, it was a '93 you were calling about?

[Mike_Moss]

Yeah t'was a '93. I suspect they wouldn't offer auto on the '93 since it was such a limited edition.

I'd still like to see an automatic GT though, I don't think I'll truely accept it until I see the actual car.

[Gen1GT]

Yeah t'was a '93. I suspect they wouldn't offer auto on the '93 since it was such a limited edition.

I'd still like to see an automatic GT though, I don't think I'll truely accept it until I see the actual car.

That sums up my view in god. I won't accept it, til I see him. :p

[7plymaple]

That sums up my view in god. I won't accept it, til I see him. :p

Youve seen me. :mad:

[Gen1GT]

Oh...THAT god...oh, ok.