New MSP owner from Windsor

[KriKet]

Hey everybody,

Just picked up my MSP today. Had psulja drive me up to get it and drive it back, since i can't really drive right now with my broken arm. Got it with 116,000km. The body is in decent condition, other than some door dings on the passenger's door.

The only problem is the turbo. I think it's a GT28RS. The turbo is burning and leaking oil. Not sure if it's the turbo or the lines, but I was anyways looking to get a new turbo for it.

Saw e2wjunglist at the Partsource in the area while we were picking up some oil to top off the car.

For now while I wait for a new turbo to come in the car will be sitting stored away, getting detailed since it's pretty dirty right now. Anyone have tips for cleaning out the engine bay? It's full of dust and dirt from the previous owner going to different job sites, as well as oil from the turbo.

Here are some pictures of the car:
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4876.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4877.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4881.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4882.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4884.jpg

Edit: for some reason photobucket didn't save the blocked out plates for some reason... oh well...

[e2wJunglist]

Congrats on the purchase man. I'm glad I got to bump into you guys today! And ofc. welcome to the club! If i knew you guys shot pics in the p.lot of Part Source i woulda joined you .. haha

[dead_cactus]

Congrats on the new ride and welcome to the club.

[psulja]

Congrats on the purchase man. I'm glad I got to bump into you guys today! And ofc. welcome to the club! If i knew you guys shot pics in the p.lot of Part Source i woulda joined you .. haha

Yea, we took the last one right before you pulled in. Snapped the shot, sat in the car and saw you fly in. Too bad though, could've been some nice shots. Nice car btw lol, love the spicy! I think we saw you earlier too while test driving and taking it to the shop to have it inspected.

[pro5dippin]

welcome to the club, take some engine bay shots y replace the turbo if its already upgraded. once your all healed up rip the turbo off yourself and take it to a rebuilder.

[voy89]

nice ride, hopefully everything's gonna work out and hope to see car on the road.

[sumrandomguy]

nice find.
welcome to TOP!

[psulja]

The car is stored in my garage right now so I'll try to take some shots today.

So to pull the turbo, I'd have to pull the engine to get to it right? We anyways need to clean the engine bay since it's so bad, so maybe we'll do that. I can get a cherrypicker for free for as long as I'd like so maybe that's what we'll do.

I just have to find someone that could rebuild it around here in Windsor.

[thekid]

^ The turbo is right out front, no need to remove the engine, just unbolt the exhaust manifold from the block, disconnect the coolant and oil lines, and disconnect the S-pipe from the J-Pipe and remove from the engine bay.

Once on a bench it will be easier to disconnect the S-Pipe and Manifold from the turbo itself. (You can do this while still in the engine bay but it's alot easier as described IMO).

[errnee]

Best colour :p Nice Ride man. I use Meguiars engine cleaner on mine

[distr0]

was that the one from windsor mazda?

[psulja]

No, it wasn't from Windsor Mazda. That one got sent to a wholesaler I think. Atleast that's what I heard. We picked it up from someone on here.
Link to post:
http://www.toprotege.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45099&highlight=harrison


Couple questions for a turbo rebuild. How reliable would a rebuilt turbo be? And who should I take it to, preferably near windsor.

Pictures of the engine bay and others I took when I took the car out today.
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4904.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4903.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4891.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4890.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4889.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4911.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4910.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4907.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4901.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4898.jpg

thekid: That sounds a lot simpler, I'll take a look at it and see what I can do.

errnee: how do you go about using it? Since you don't want to get the wires, fuses, and intake wet right? I've always been unsure about how to use it and never wanted to take chances lol


One more question. Is anyone using a Clifford G5 Concept 550 alarm system? Trying to figure out how to deal with the sensors for alarm. Messed them up while trying to figure out the turbo timer and now the alarm doesn't go off if we hit it, only if we get in with out disarming the alarm.

[errnee]

I got the engine warm and keeped it running while I used it and rinsed it off, I used to power wash mazda engines at work, but mostly stay where the painted bits are, occasionaly some plugs did get wet but it was fine.

[dead_cactus]

http://www.toprotege.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33558

[psulja]

Ok, thanks, I'll give that a try. Not sure if I'll do it before the turbo fix or after it.

Have to do the interior too.

[thekid]

Is there a reason you guys think it's a GT28RS? The fs thread linked mentions nothing about upgrading to a GT28. The cars came stock with GT25's, so unless someone changed it along the way that's what it would be. Midnitehour had his turbo rebuilt by somewhere local to the GTA, for what he had done, price seemed reasonable.

[psulja]

That's what the seller told us. That fs thread is old, he had to turbo replaced 8mnths ago since he had problems with the first one. He said he got it cheaper than what he could get the stock one for, but i think installed it himself, and the combination of the two didn't end well.

Midnitehour if you're reading this, can you let me know where you had it done?

[distr0]

http://www.cherryturbos.com/

[iBbLaCkMaN02Pro5]

Congrats! Best MSP color! Welcome to the club. Did you manage to get the 03.5 wheels with it?

[andrew2]

He got the Racing Harts with it. Awesome rims.

I've got a P5 but after experiencing the MSP I want one too lol

[joghia]

He also got stock Protege sedan taillights unfortunately :confused:

[pro5dippin]

is this a mazdaspeed clone?

[e2wJunglist]

http://images.damncrows.com/img/upld/literal-face-palm.1242711018.jpg

[psulja]

What do you mean stock sedan taillights? They look the same don't they?

Pretty sure it's not a clone. It has everything the same as the stock MSP I drove at the Windsor dealer, just quicker. And it's registered as an MSP.

Which would you suggest; cherryturbos.com or sending it back to Garrett.

[voy89]

msp lights are more pink and have tinted blinkers/reverse lights

[andrew2]

I don't think it's a clone... otherwise someone went through a lot of trouble.

We've test driven the MSP at the Mazda dealership and checked both of those out. Everything is the same except the ones at the dealership were a lot cleaner.

[dead_cactus]

Not a clone, its the real deal :lol:

[dead_cactus]

Which would you suggest; cherryturbos.com or sending it back to Garrett.

Cherry Turbos

[psulja]

Really? It's not better to send it straight to the manufacturer? cherryturbos will do a perfect job and i won't have to worry about it blowing in a few weeks/months?

[thekid]

^ Unless it's still under warranty (ie. the individual you bought it from bought it new within the last 12 months), I would deal with a turbo specialty shop.

[Azi]

Really? It's not better to send it straight to the manufacturer? cherryturbos will do a perfect job and i won't have to worry about it blowing in a few weeks/months?

if thats the case, then i guess we should only get our oil changed/services done at the dealer.

[psulja]

good point. we're going to call cherryturbos today, as well as garrett, see how much each costs.

i think the original owner got it used from someone else so i don't think it's under warranty.

[thekid]

The place midnitehour used was turbo masters inc, may want to try them too. They're in Mississauga.

[psulja]

So a little update... Got in touch with CherryTurbos. Just need to get the turbo taken off and then we're shipping it out soon hopefully.

Then just need to get the hardpipes, a new intercooler, a BOV, and i'm getting a boost gauge for free :) Anything else you think we'll need to run the turbo once it comes back? Just so we can get everything ordered and ready for install.

The alarm is still really annoying and confusing. We turned off the sensors on accident and finally got them working, but they only work some of the time. And then almost everytime we lock the car and engage the alarm, as I walk away the alarm starts going off. Or randomly, while it's sitting in the garage or driveway it will go off. It's getting kind of annoying and may be pissing off the neighbours.

[thekid]

^ you've adjusted the white dial on the alarm module? that is how you adjust the shock sensors.

[dead_cactus]

Ditch that alarm and get a Compustar or Viper.

[psulja]

No, according to the manual you do it with different button combinations one the fob. It all seems really stupid to me, and since the turbo timer is controlled by it, all the buttons have been changed for some reason. Really dumb.. I don't think he really wants to switch out the alarm systems since he's already spending money on the turbo setup. For now I think we'll have to try to figure it out :|

I detailed the interior today, well most of it. Just need to do the dash and centre console, but that shouldn't take too long.

The turbo is coming off on Thursday and getting shipped to CherryTurbos.

Is this everything we would need?
- rebuilt turbo
- hardpipes
- intercooler
- BOV
- what else? I think the previous owner just put on the GT28 with nothing else being changed, so all the stock piping is still there, but we're going to change that out. Any tips would be helpful since I'm still a turbo n00b. Until then I'll keep searching here and the American forum.

[dead_cactus]

The hardpipes, intercooler and bov aren't a necessity to get the car back on the road. Unless there is something wrong with the stock smic and piping.

[psulja]

Yes, but while we're at it we're just going to get it all.

[psulja]

So we tried to clean the engine bay of the MSP and andrew's P5. It wasn't as good as hoped since we were rushed because of how cold it was, but here are the pics:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Engine%20Cleaning/After.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Engine%20Cleaning/After1.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Engine%20Cleaning/After3.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Engine%20Cleaning/After5.jpg

Turbo comes off in about an hour or less..

[dead_cactus]

Pretty good job on both. I hate washing my cars in the winter.

[w_l89]

^^ self wash doesn't clean the salt off properly, drive thru wash costs too much, cleaning it urself is a pain, and car looks like ass all salty.

lose- lose all around

[midnitehour]

hey it's harrison's old ride..

afaik his gt28 didn't have any issues with it. the stocker was blown though.

after you get it back MAKE SURE you're getting an oil restrictor fitting, or you'll be sending it back to be rebuilt 20mins after you crank the car up.

I used turbomasters to get mine rebuilt, pretty good guy to work with. it's on dixie.

don't forget you'll need new gaskets, and be very gentle with the coolant return hose.

also with the GT28 you'll need a tuning solution. i recall him saying that he had fuel cut issues at wot with the turbo unless you've already tested that.

[andrew2]

edit, andrew2 was signed in.. whoops. Is it possible to delete posts btw?

[psulja]

Here we go, lets try this again lol...

--------

It has problems now lol, but it's already off the car thanks to kz9. It wasn't put on very well that's for sure. Some missing nuts and bolts, broken studs, etc. Kellan had fun lol.. oil in all the piping and the intercooler.

Ordering gaskets, hardpipes, SMIC soon, and i'll look into the oil restrictor fitting.

What kind of tuning solution would you suggest? I didn't take it to WOT too much, but when I did there was no issue with a fuel cut, so maybe i don't need it (?)

Going to clean up the turbo tomorrow morning and then ship it off to Cherry Turbos to get it rebuilt.

In the meantime we're going to keep cleaning up the engine bay since it's so dirty still. I can post some pictures tomorrow if we roll it out of the garage.

[kz9]

I was not impressed by workmanship of the previous owner. It had a broken S to J pipe stud, 1 missing nut on s-pipe to turbo, 1 broken turbo to manifold stud, and the big problem is the bolt that was cross threaded into the crank support plate for the oil return. Now I need to hopefully drill and tap that again. But I also am thinking of just taping the hole with a NPT (I think 3/8'') and installing a 45' fitting and using braided line.
I don't know if it can be done, and I will start another thread to discuss that.....

As for the restrictor, thats iffy...... Garrett recommends one if the oil pressure is above 60psi. I didn't install one on mine and its fine. Our cars run such low idle pressure and operating rpm pressure is between 35-55psi (hot) I talked to them about this and they said well its iffy. They recommend at least 45psi at higher rpms to prevent damage.....

[kz9]

Found this on Garretts website......

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_optimization.html

[psulja]

I'm just looking at the streetunit website and have a quick question about the hardpipe and intercooler kit; If I am getting the HKS SSQ V2 BOV, should I get the Tig welded BOV flange? What exactly is that, a little confused about that right now. Just want to make sure before I order anything... I may have a few more questions so i'll just edit this post with those, unless some responds by then..

[kz9]

http://www.streetunit.com/MSP_Hard_Piping_p/sumspapk.htm

Are you talking about this? If you want to run a BOV then you will want the flange. That just means it will come with on already welded on....

[psulja]

Yep, that exactly. I figured that, so I put it with the HKS flange welded on.

I'm having troubles finding all those gaskets you said I should get, I think I got 4 of them so far. I guess I'll have to keep looking, or do you have a contact with them that you could go through?

Also, I found the turbo studs but not the manifold studs. I'll keep looking but I have a feeling you may have better luck than me lol... (for example, wtf is a special coolant elbow? lol, I'm guessing you know what you meant by that)

[kz9]

Manifold studs are from Dealer. OEM part. I will look to see if I can just get the studs, don't need the bolts....

Special coolant elbow. lol Iirc its called the return elbow. Samco I think makes one? Or OEM part again.

[psulja]

I'll take a break from looking for parts to post up some of the pictures I got today..

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Jan%2020%20Photoshoot%20and%20Turbo%20Removal/IMG_4955.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Jan%2020%20Photoshoot%20and%20Turbo%20Removal/IMG_4961.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Jan%2020%20Photoshoot%20and%20Turbo%20Removal/IMG_4973.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Jan%2020%20Photoshoot%20and%20Turbo%20Removal/IMG_4977.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Jan%2020%20Photoshoot%20and%20Turbo%20Removal/IMG_4982.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Jan%2020%20Photoshoot%20and%20Turbo%20Removal/IMG_4984.jpg
TOProtege.com
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Jan%2020%20Photoshoot%20and%20Turbo%20Removal/IMG_4987.jpg
Turbo-less engine
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Jan%2020%20Photoshoot%20and%20Turbo%20Removal/IMG_5000.jpg
Turbo, nice and oily
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Jan%2020%20Photoshoot%20and%20Turbo%20Removal/IMG_5003.jpg
Oil in the intake piping
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Jan%2020%20Photoshoot%20and%20Turbo%20Removal/IMG_5006.jpg
New valve cover ready to go one once everything else is done:
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Jan%2020%20Photoshoot%20and%20Turbo%20Removal/IMG_5009.jpg

[psulja]

Manifold studs are from Dealer. OEM part. I will look to see if I can just get the studs, don't need the bolts....

Special coolant elbow. lol Iirc its called the return elbow. Samco I think makes one? Or OEM part again.

lol alright, I'll go to the dealer tomorrow to get a price quote for those. Anything else I'm getting from the dealer? Valve cover gasket right? And if I put the new valve cover on with a new gasket now, would that be fine for when we do the timing belt in summer?

[dead_cactus]

The gasket should be fine if you replace now and do timing belt in the summer.

[thekid]

The turbo gaskets (between turbo and manifold) and manifold to head you can also get from the dealer.

While, by the looks of things workmanship is probably part of the issue, i've found that if parts are reused (studs and nuts), I found they are far more prone to backing off (which sounds like happened here in a few places).

[psulja]

Should I just go to the dealer for all the gaskets and manifold studs? And then just get the intercooler and piping from StreetUnit?

Brian, any update about the BOV?

[psulja]

Need a quick answer.. I'm cleaning up the turbo and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take off all the lines coming from it when I go to send it away. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to include when I send it off to CherryTurbos.

[thekid]

^ I would hold on to the vac line goign to the waste gate, and all of the oil and coolant lines. You just want to send away the turbo.

[psulja]

We called cherryturbos and they said to leave everything on it as is and not to clean it either (we asked and they said they won't charge us extra for not cleaning it).

Basically his reasoning was that he wanted to see everything that was going on with the turbo.

[psulja]

So this is the progress I made today... The two studs at the bottom of the rad holding the intercooler broke so they were stuck in there so then I had to take it all out to get the bolts out by cutting and drilling them out.

Turbo is wrapped up and getting dropped off at UPS on the way to the Auto Show.

Going to clean the engine bay again tomorrow.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5011.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5014.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5012.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5013.jpg

[e2wJunglist]

^ wow i can't believe you got the heat shield off without snapping any bolts!

I popped 3 of mine and since have thrown the heat shield in the garbage. lol

[kz9]

Only 2 were on the other was snapped.

What the hell! If I knew you guys were going to rip the rad out I would have done that last night, and made removing the turbo that much easier. lol

[psulja]

Haha! Sorry about that! It wasn't planned, until I broke two bolts trying to take the intercooler off :confused:

But we talked to Cherryturbos today and they said it should be less than a week, but we'll see if that's actually true.

Going to pick some cleaning stuff up now. Probably going to buff the heatshield to make it shine, like this:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106351

[psulja]

Since I need to get new sparkplugs on the P5 I thought I'd take a look at the MSP's. They are burnt up a bit and there was some oil on the plugs. After doing some searching I found for the most part that it's the valve cover gasket, so I'm guessing that'll get fixed when we do the waterpump and timing belt with the new valve cover gasket.

I'm just wondering what plugs you guys would suggest for the MSP, and which for the P5? Would I be able to get the same plugs for both the P5 and the MSP? And for wires, could I get the same ones again?

[kz9]

Got out all of the broken studs today and checking to see if its cracked with a oil soak test.

Do you want me to get the OEM parts and you just pay me?

Tuesday maybe I can work on the oil return bolt?

[psulja]

Sure, pick up the OEM parts and KriKet will pay you whenever you want it. Tuesday should be good for me, I think. I'll have to let you know.

Just placed the order for:
SMIC
Hardpipes
HKS SSQV V3 BOV
Sparkplugs for MSP
Wires
Turbo studs

The turbo will get to Cherryturbos on monday and then they should call us and let us know how long it'll take and how much it'll cost.

[kz9]

So you ordered that kit. hmmmm....

Like said eariler a tuning solution will be needed.... I'd invest in a Air/fuel controller.

But like I told you guys lastnight, make sure you have a planned goal so you get the proper supporting mods for the power you want.....

THe Zoom Zoom Boom club is always acepting new members.....lol

[psulja]

haha, alright, I'll look into something and hopefully get it ordered soon.

The Zoom Zoom Boom club already took one of the mazda's in our family lol, so it won't be the first time ;) But hopefully it'll all be good with all the right parts ordered and installed.

[midnitehour]

I have an ftc for sale for the right price

[psulja]

PM'd

So, I'm not really sure what I should be looking at getting for engine management, new to all that. But I was on the US forum and saw these, would any of them help?

3. Unichip. Manufacter settings with boost actuator. It ran around 11-12psi on mine probably because of the open exhaust.....$380
5. 2-Step from N2MB.com. I was the first ever to use it. Works Great. The instructions from their website were made by me.....$110

[psulja]

So after taking out the stuff on the right side we got into actually cleaning it and it looks much better now!

Before:
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Engine%20Cleaning/IMG_4904.jpg

After:
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Engine%20Cleaning/IMG_5017.jpg



We didn't do the passenger side yet because we don't really want to get water and product leaking into the open ports/holes. That'll be done when the turbo gets back and installed.

[voy89]

it was nasty there before, nice job

[kz9]

Looking good, now I shouldn't get as oily.....

[psulja]

Yea, hopefully not. Especially since when you go to put the turbo back in it should be mostly new parts you're touching.

I need to talk to you about engine management though. Maybe tuesday, or through PM's.

[kz9]

We can talk tuesday. Might not need it, We'll have to wait and see how it drives after the mods.....

[psulja]

Okay cool. And if you already got the OEM parts just give me a price before tuesday so Kristian can get you the money. We already have turbo studs.

And the fan on the intercooler side was filled with oil. we tried to clean it out, but everytime it spun it just shot more out. And then tried to take it apart and the head's just stripped.

[psulja]

Just got off the phone with CherryTurbos and they said they can't see anything wrong with it from the outside, so before they take it apart they want us to get a compression test done on the engine. Gotta get that done and then call them back.

If it's not the turbo what would you guys think it could be? There was oil all over the engine, and when we put it on the hoist it before buying it it looked like it started at the turbo and everything down was covered in oil but now not too sure. It was the disco potato with everything else stock, other than the intake. He suggested that it may have been because it was the stock oil lines it needed to get rid of the oil somehow so it just started shooting oil everywhere since it could go through the lines. Not really sure...

[kz9]

Edit to below cause I am a dumbass.....

[kz9]

Ok well durning my shower, I had a erueka! monment.... LOL

One possiblitly that I should have checked when I first went their and can't believe I didn't........

PCV valve........ god dammit!

If this has failed or your valve seals, or you have bad compession (ring), the oil can be ethier sucked or boosted into your intake via the breather hose.....

I can't believe I did not check that....

[psulja]

The latest from Cherry:

I wasn't on the phone, Kristian was, but this is what I'm understanding from it:

"They say the turbo is receiving too much oil because it's a ball bearing turbo. It's quite possible we may just need to restrict the flow of the oil. Maybe even up to half the amount of oil it's receiving."
The said they'd even talk to you about it Kellan. 1-800-387-3089. If you get a chance could you call them and let them know it's you calling about Kristian's turbo. Ask for Herman. Might make everything easier.

[thekid]

^ IIRC the stock oil lines have a restrictor built in, but if the lines were replaced at some point this could be the issue

[kz9]

I have a BB turbo and don't use a restrictor. I will call Garrett again, but last time they said it was iffy cause of the oil pressure our car have......

I have no leakage on my turbo, and almost no comsuption.....

[dead_cactus]

As for the restrictor, thats iffy...... Garrett recommends one if the oil pressure is above 60psi. I didn't install one on mine and its fine. Our cars run such low idle pressure and operating rpm pressure is between 35-55psi (hot) I talked to them about this and they said well its iffy. They recommend at least 45psi at higher rpms to prevent damage.....

35psi seem a bit low, no? :confused:

I'm usually between 50-60psi and 20-30psi while idle.

[Mike_Moss]

Woah cool project over here. Missed this thread...probably because it is in the Gallery section.

I would agree with Brian in the fact that you may be missing the restrictor. Too much pressure could cause the seals to leak but not necessarily blow to the point that they're bad.

Jeff, I don't see above 55psi very often...only when cold and/or oil is time to change.

[mazda_dan]

hey sweet ride man.

[kz9]

Idle I'm at 10psi and only see higher then 50 when bone cold. I have verified this with an actual Matco Oil pressure gauge....

[psulja]

^ let me know what cherry says. hopefully we can get the turbo fixed and back soon. oh, and what SU say about putting those parts on our order? They haven't responded to our email yet so we'll wait and see i guess. the main order is still processing.

[kz9]

I e-mailed Mark and waiting to hear back.

Cherry says that he has to tear it apart because the he wants to be sure he cleans all of the cooked oil out of it so its not unbalanced. We discussed the possiblity of the drain line being the problem. I guess that the seal between the oil return flange on the turbo was just silicone! I told him to take a close look at the hose to see if there is any in the hose/flange restricting the flow. Also we both agreed that the condition of the oil was not the best and that oil changes were most likely over due when changed.

One theroy that I had is that since you have no turbo timer on your car that shuting it off can lead to leakage aswell will out proper cool down. This causes oil coking and will lead to build up in the center section leading to a resrtiction causing oil to leak.....

[KriKet]

I still dont have a response yet from "ken" aka sam from SU. I sent him an e-mail last night after you left kellan. I would hope to hear back by 5 though

[KriKet]

The car does have some sort of turbo timer. We used it, but after messing around with the alarm sensitivity and such I think we lost it. I ran for 60 secs after the car turned off when activated with the push of a couple buttons. I cant speak for Harrison though, who knows whether he used it all the time

[psulja]

Prev. owner claimed he did oil change 3K ago, but he also claimed it was metic. maintained so I don't really believe that.

It kind of had a turbo timer but not really. Through the alarm it kept the car running for 60seconds when you could actually get the correct button combination, which for some reason changed a few times. Maybe a real turbo timer may help.

I'm guessing KriKet will have to give him a call for a more accurate quote on pricing.

[KriKet]

OK, so I talked to Herman at Cherry. He quoted me $4-500 rebuild.

[e2wJunglist]

The car does have some sort of turbo timer. We used it, but after messing around with the alarm sensitivity and such I think we lost it. I ran for 60 secs after the car turned off when activated with the push of a couple buttons. I cant speak for Harrison though, who knows whether he used it all the time

What kind of alarm is it?

[psulja]

^ Clifford Concept 550

It's a really dumb alarm. Can't find anything out for it. All all the buttons are different than they should be according to the manual. And it goes off for no reason at all.

[dead_cactus]

^ You know of anyone in Windsor that specializes in Clifford alarms? Have them give it a good look over to see what the problem is. If it were me though I would look into upgrading to either a Compustar or Viper.

[KriKet]

Im already over budget but how much do they cost? lol

[KriKet]

I talked to a place in here in Windsor that knows clifford, when i get the car back on the road I will take it to them before considering a new alarm

[midnitehour]

I already posted in here that oil pressure restrictor is a must.

Its a 12 dollar part and can save you from another rebuild

The stock msp setup has it somewhere be it in the feed lines or in the actual cartridge itself.

A restrictor won't harm your turbo. It restricts flow. If you're scared or anal get a oil pressure regulator, either way 60psi starts will blow seals

[kz9]

^just cause it leaks oil, doesn't mean you need to rebuild. The oil seal is just a metal ring. If it leaks, install one.

Like I said before, I don't run one and know of many others that don't run one. I would rather have too much oil then too little.....

[kz9]

Mike e-mailed me back and they have the gaskets. Write them back saying you need:

Exhaust manifold geasket
Turbo gasket
Downpipe Gasket
S to J pipe gasket


THey might not have the Exhuast mani, but I know the others are WAY cheaper then getting them from the dealer....

I can get the Mani gasket from the dealer if they can supply.....

[Tw1tCh]

Mike e-mailed me back and they have the gaskets. Write them back saying you need:

Exhaust manifold geasket
Turbo gasket
Downpipe Gasket
S to J pipe gasket


THey might not have the Exhuast mani, but I know the others are WAY cheaper then getting them from the dealer....

I can get the Mani gasket from the dealer if they can supply.....

the mani gasket s something like $20 at the dealer if I remember correctly, its been a while since i got one for my headers

[psulja]

Shoot, forgot to get the valve cover gasket... oh well, i'm guessing we'll just go to Mazda for that. What else will we need when it comes to the water pump and timing belt? I forgot what you told us last time. Whatever it is, we'll need two of (MSP and P5).

Kellan, I know you said to wait until summertime to do the WP and TB but do you want to just do it on the MSP now while everything already apart?

[kz9]

^not really. I want to do that at my house on my lift, with ALL my tools....

[psulja]

Turbo should be back tomorrow :D

Kellan, were you saying you wanted to test it before installing it? If you do I could drop it off for you.

[kz9]

^nope. He took it apart so it should be good.

I know I need to get some studs, but how do you do getting the gaskets? Do I need to get the manifold gasket from the dealer?

I also haven't heard anything back on the Coolant return 90. But I'm thinking that I will just test the old one. Anyway of dropping that off to me?

[psulja]

SU still hasn't responded to Kristian's emails so he's going to call them today and hopefully that will help. I'll let you know once I find out.

I'm at school until 6 today but after that I should be able to drop it off. I'll go home on my break to pick it up, and just drive over after school if that's okay with you. I'll text you before I head over. And by then we should know what's going on with SU.

[psulja]

So we got some of the gaskets:
Downpipe to J-pipe $7.88
Turbo to Downpipe $25.45
Turbo to manifold gasket $11.30


No manifold gasket. So what do you still need to pick up for us Kellan?

I think they said that we can expect the parts by Friday, then you get to put it all back together. If all the parts get here, are you able to put it back together on saturday?

[kz9]

I have to order the manifold and dount. I will also pick up some threaded stud rod so I can make the new studs needed.

Saturday might not work as I think I have family stuff. Let me know when all the parts that you ordered arive and we will go from there.....

[psulja]

turbo arrived today :) delivered by the ups man wearing shorts while it was snowing :confused: looks like it wouldn't be 3 weeks, eh kellan? haha

Now we wait for SU to send out the other parts, and then for a day when Kellan is free and it can all go back together.

[kz9]

Go pick up the Exhaust manifold and dount gasket from Windsor Mazda.....

[psulja]

Okay, how much is it and are they expecting us to come get it or did you not get a chance to go yet?

And is that all I say, Exhaust manifold gasket and donut gasket? I'm hoping they'll know what I mean by a donut gasket.

[andrew2]

^ That UPS man is retarded.

[kz9]

Both gaskets are in stock. Ask for the 2003 Protege 2.0L exhaust manifold gasket and the dount gasket (between j-pipe and cat)

Its gonna run you around the $40 mark.....

[psulja]

okay, we'll do that tomorrow, and andrew might be going for a test drive in something there, maybe.

Also, can we get something a little more clear about the oil line restrictor? Should we get one or not? I'm looking on the american board and have found a bit of information but not much.

talking about oil lines vvvv
stock ones can be reused just take caution when rebending then to fit properly

Also the Garrett recommends a oil line restrictor. the stock T25 supposedly has one built in but the GT28RS does not i cant remember for sure, but i think there was someone who ran it without the restrictor and some bad stuff happened... i think it needed a rebuild right away. BB turbos need restrictors, as they require much less oil to operate. Whereas Journal bearing turbos actually need more oil to operate properly. Anyone have problems with oil and their factory turbo? I had my center housing replaced and re-built and still leaked. So when I took it back in, I was made aware that there should be a restrictor valve on the inlet feed line. There wasn't one there when I took it apart. According to the Garrett Turbo dealer I took the unit to, on the ball bearing turbos, there should be a restrictor valve because they tend to take in more oil than they can dispose.factory turbos typically work fine until they wear out... (duh)... the restrictor is so you don't overpressurize the seals and blow oil out of them... ball bearings need very little oil compared to journal bearings... So know you were saying you don't think we need one Kellan, but from all the posts over there, it seems to be the general idea. I'll take a look at Garrett's site too.

If we are going to get one, where should we look to get one? Straight from Garrett or is there somewhere else?

[psulja]

Is it something like this?

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-021&Category_Code=

Or this:

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-036&Category_Code=

What size would we be looking at?

[kz9]

Thats something your going to have to find. I don't run one so I don't know where to look.

I run -4an feed and -10 or -12an drain with no restrictor and no leaks. But my set-up is way different then a MSP.....

[psulja]

Okay, can anybody else chime in on this? Is that the right part or what? How do I know what size oil lines they are?

Here are the pics of the rebuilt turbo:
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5032.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5024.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5023.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5025.jpg

Looks pretty good :)

[kz9]

Hopefully all the lines came back with it....

[psulja]

Yes they did, they're in a little bag beside it right now.

[dead_cactus]

turbo arrived today :) delivered by the ups man wearing shorts while it was snowing :confused:

Shorts FTW :yes:

[CrazyCaker]

Thats something your going to have to find. I don't run one so I don't know where to look.

I run -4an feed and -10 or -12an drain with no restrictor and no leaks. But my set-up is way different then a MSP.....

Woah hold on there... you aren't using an oil restrictor? Dude you can blow the oil seals over time like that. What's your oil pressure? I know it was around 70 or so psi on my car at regular driving speeds, and over 100 at cold start ups.

[pro5dippin]

wasnt it pissin oil in the first place thats probably the problem.

[CrazyCaker]

wasnt it pissin oil in the first place thats probably the problem.

Most likely. The seals are common to go from this type of thing. They are easy to replace yourself tho.

Always use a restrictor on the feed line. The reason for the large drain hose (larger the better) is to clear the mashed up oil that has passed though the turbo's bearings. This is gravity fed, so make sure it flows nicely back to the MBSP (Not the oil pan. The oil slushing around in the pan will just slow down how fast it can drain).

[psulja]

Okay, so what size restrictor should I be looking at? Or should we be looking at getting new feed and drain lines at the same time as getting the restrictor, just so everything is new on the rebuilt turbo and there's less chance of having to go back in there later?

[kz9]

My oil pressure is 55-65psi cold. Hot it runs between 35psi-55psi at varying speeds.

I talked to Garrett many times. I used a actual oil pressure tester, not my gauge, to test the pressure. Garrett recommends 45psi min pressure (high rpm) at the bearings.

Pooling oil in the center section (causing back-pressure) is what causes oil to leak. Take a turbo and cap the drain, fill it with oil, let it sit, and oil WILL leak out.

[CrazyCaker]

^ so in other words, use a large drain hose! lol :p

[kz9]

Oil Supply & Drainage

Journal Bearing Turbo

Journal-bearings function similarly to rod or crank bearings in an engine - oil pressure is required to keep components separated. An oil restrictor is generally not needed except for oil-pressure-induced leakage. The recommended oil feed for journal bearing turbochargers is -4AN or hose/tubing with an ID of approximately 0.25.
Be sure to use an oil filter that meets or exceeds the OEM specifications.







Ball Bearing Turbo

An oil restrictor is recommended for optimal performance with ball bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure of 40 - 45 psi at maximum engine speed is recommended to prevent damage to the turbocharger’s internals. In order to achieve this pressure, a restrictor with a 0.040' orifice will normally suffice, but you should always verify the oil pressure entering the turbo after the restrictor in insure that the components are functioning properly.
Recommended oil feed is -3AN or -4AN line or hose/tubing with a similar ID. As always, use an oil filter that meets or exceeds the OEM specifications.




OIL LEAKAGE SHOULD NOT OCCUR ON A PROPERLY FUNCTIONING
SYSTEM IF RESTRICTOR IS NOT USED UNLESS THE SYSTEM
PRESSURE IS EXCESSIVELY HIGH.

Oil Drain
In general, the larger the oil drain, the better. However, a -10AN is typically sufficient
for proper oil drainage, but try not to have an inner diameter smaller than the drain hole
in the housing as this will likely cause the oil to back up in the center housing. Speaking
of oil backing up in the center housing, a gravity feed needs to be just that! The oil
outlet should follow the direction of gravity +/-35° when installed in the vehicle on level
ground. If a gravity feed is not possible, a scavenge pump should be used to insure that
oil flows freely away from the center housing.
Avoid:

■Undulations in the line or extended lengths parallel to the ground
■Draining into oil pan below oil level
■Dead heading into a component behind the oil pan
■Area behind the oil pan (windage tray window) where oil sling occurs from crankshaft

When installing your turbocharger, insure that the turbocharger axis of rotation is parallel
to the level ground within +/- 15°. This means that the oil inlet/outlet should be within
15° of being perpendicular to level ground.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know by looking at the MSP setup the oil drain setup is not the best cause its a little small and it runs at a 30deg angle

[CrazyCaker]

^ makes since. My turbo is ceramic coated ball bearings. Turbonetics actually includes the restrictor with it.

[kz9]

5. Common Causes of Oil Leakage

A properly installed turbo should NOT leak oil.

There are, however, instances where oil leaks occur. The most common causes,
depending on the location of the leak, are:
Leakage from compressor and turbine seals

•Excessively high oil pressure
•Inadequate drain drain is too small, does not go continuously downhill,
or the location of the drain inside the oil pan is located in a section that has
oil slung from the crank causing oil to back up in drain tube. Always
place oil drain into oil pan in a location that oil from crank is blocked by windage tray.
•Improper venting of crankcase pressure.
•Excessive crankcase pressure. (PCV)
•Oil drain rotated past the recommended 35°.
Leakage from compressor seal
Excessive pressure across the compressor housing inlet caused by:
•Air filter is too small.
•Charge air tubing too small or has too many bends between the air filter
and compressor housing.
•Clogged air filter.
Leakage from Turbine seal
•Collapsed turbine piston ring from excessive EGT’s.
•Turbo tilted back on its axis past recommended 15°.

[kz9]

Does my turbo require an oil restrictor?
Oil requirements depend on the turbo's bearing system type. Garrett has two types of bearing systems; traditional journal bearing; and ball bearing.

The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film. If the oil pressure is too low, the metal components will come in contact causing premature wear and ultimately failure. If the oil pressure is too high, leakage may occur from the turbocharger seals. With that as background, an oil restrictor is generally not needed for a journal-bearing turbocharger except for those applications with oil-pressure-induced seal leakage. Remember to address all other potential causes of leakage first (e.g., inadequate/improper oil drain out of the turbocharger, excessive crankcase pressure, turbocharger past its useful service life, etc.) and use a restrictor as a last resort. Garrett distributors can tell you the recommended range of acceptable oil pressures for your particular turbo. Restrictor size will always depend on how much oil pressure your engine is generating-there is no single restrictor size suited for all engines.
Ball-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo.
The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance

[kz9]

Iirc Garrett BB turbos come with a .040 resrictor cast (machined) in the center section. I know that its smaller then -3an.....

[psulja]

Okay, I was asking around and asked a friend with a turbo miata. He says currently he is not running one, but when we install the turbo to have it run and watch it. If it starts to leak oil to immediately shut it off and put on a restrictor. He said running it a little like that, and catching it before it leaks a lot will not damage anything but will let us know if we need it or not. Or can we just get something to monitor the oil pressure in there?

[kz9]

Once we get it running we can bring it over to my place and I can go over the whole car with all my testers.

[psulja]

Good enough. I just hope we hear from SU soon enough so we can get it back together sometime soon. And before we do, it'll have to have the temp plates renewed again, or he'll have to get the permanent plate put on.

[psulja]

So SU says they still haven't recieved the SMIC so they haven't been able to polish it. They said they should be able to get it on monday, polish it, and send everything out. They said to expect everything by next Friday.

Hypothetically, if we get it next Friday, how long would it take you to install everything, and would you be able to do it next saturday?

Also, is there any prep work I should do before the install day so it doesn't take as long?

Edit: We're going to call ATP turbo and try to get the restrictor. It was suggested to me by a friend who is running a turbo miata to get a new return line while we're in there, so we'll probably order that too, to replace it while we're in there. So we'll get the restrictor and a new -10 return line.

[KriKet]

Would I need an air/fuel ratio gauge? A guy is selling one for $175. Just wondering if i should get it.

[joghia]

That guy you speak of, if it's Timbit selling his for $175 is a KILLER deal. Get it. This is a must have gauge for MSPs.

[KriKet]

yes Timbits sale, ok ill prolly get it then!

[kz9]

Next Saturday could could after 1pm tho. I have school until then. Take a picture of the stock oil return fittings and line. I want to look at them before we do the install.

Pick up that WB from Timbit.....

[psulja]

The sale is pending, if they guy drops out tomorrow night we get it.

I'll go snap a picture now.

[psulja]

Not sure what exactly you wanted me to take a picture of so I took a couple:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5033.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5035.jpg

If you want a picture of something else just let me know... But we might just consider getting this from what my friend with the turbomiata told me:
Return line (not sure what length to get):
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-019&Category_Code=

and the restrictor (is -4 the size we want?):
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-021&Category_Code=

Do those look okay?

[kz9]

I say just leave the stock return line for now. I think the stock line is -3an, but I'm not sure.

You need to find a new o-ring for that flange, Its a special High temp butal rubber....


the other flange is a copper gasket I do believe

[KriKet]

Swapped out the stock kenwood sub and amp for my alpine sub and amp from the old car. Guess I can say good bye to my trunk space, lol. Sounds amazing tho! Unfortunately, the 15 amp fuse at the battery will have to be swapped out too. I already blew that fuse twice. Luckily, I have exactly what I need still in the old car!

How much do you think I can get for the kenwood sub and amp?
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5037.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5038.jpg

[psulja]

I say just leave the stock return line for now. I think the stock line is -3an, but I'm not sure.

You need to find a new o-ring for that flange, Its a special High temp butal rubber....


the other flange is a copper gasket I do believe

Why a stock line for now if we'll just have to go back later and change it? It's just $40 that could save us hassle later on, no?

So the restrictor I should get should be for the -3an line? Something like this:
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-FTG-039&Category_Code=

Where should I look for the o-ring? I could only find the full flange for $15
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-FLA-010&Category_Code=

And would we need a gasket too?
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=GRT-GSK-008&Category_Code=

I'm not really sure where I should be looking for everything and what exactly I should be getting.

[kz9]

Pick up 2 gaskets....


As for the feed line restrictor, dude I don't know what to tell you. I don't know.....

As for the drain. Maybe thats something you can do yourself then......

[psulja]

What do you mean for the drain? Is it not just as simple as putting on a new line?

Which two gaskets? The ones I posted a link to?

Can someone else tell me if that -3an restrictor is the right thing I should be getting?

[kz9]

Not exactly. You need new flanges and fittings and a custom length hose.....

These gaskets....

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...Category_Code=

[dead_cactus]

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5038.jpg

Looks good. Sell me that cargo net :p I'm serious, if your willing to sell send me a PM :)

[psulja]

^ broken link

[kz9]

Dude its the gasket that you posted the link for......

[psulja]

Okay, so I'm just getting two of those gaskets, an o-ring, and the restrictor? I'm about to call ATP turbo to get everything, I don't want to have to call twice.

[KriKet]

Sorry cactus I'm keeping the cargo net

[psulja]

Could a mod maybe move this into the Club Projects section to maybe get some more answers about the restrictor, etc? At time of posting we didn't think it was going to turn into a project.

Thanks!

[psulja]

The sale is pending, if they guy drops out tomorrow night we get it.

The previous buyer dropped out and I thought I could have someone pick it up for me but they wouldn't. So now I'm going to make the drive out to get it for Kristian, it'll still be much cheaper than buying it new.

[e2wJunglist]

How much do you think I can get for the kenwood sub and amp?


Try searching the FS section for an idea.

I sold my full setup for $100. Im sure you could probably get more if you parted it out and sold each component seperately on craiglist or something. But up in here you wont get much interest at a high selling price.

[thekid]

I've paid $50 for the Kenwood Amp in the past.

[KriKet]

:yes:I think ill put it on kijiji for $125, it'll prolly sell for $100

[Mike_Moss]

Could a mod maybe move this into the Club Projects section to maybe get some more answers about the restrictor, etc? At time of posting we didn't think it was going to turn into a project.

Thanks!
Been dying to do that...thanks for asking! :)

[psulja]

Been dying to do that...thanks for asking! :)

haha, thanks for moving it :)

[KriKet]

So I called EVERY Garrett Distributor on their site today and got some good information. The last place I called said that whenever they do a turbo they install a restrictor with it as well, so it would probably be in my best interest to get one. The guy told me that too much pressure is better than not having enough, they've done some cars that run with oil pressure of over 100 psi (Im assuming these are high performance engines). After giving further information, I believe we found the problem. It's a combo of no restrictor along with a poorly designed oil return line.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/returnline.jpg

The oil return line is not designed very well, it does not go straight down, and is definitely more than 15 degrees. It's more like 40 degrees. From what I'm told, ATP can make a custom return line (poss. a custom restrictor to fit my feed line). Kellan will you have a problem installing this?

[kz9]

You get the parts, I will install....

[KriKet]

cool beans

[psulja]

So I've been thinking about it and trying to figure out the easiest way to deal with the feed/restriction/return of the oil for the turbo.

The feed line ends in a male but it looks like just a simple double flare on the end of the line holding the male fitting on.
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4687-1.jpg
If this is true, we could just order a -3AN female fitting from ATP, slide it on and do the double flare to save us any hassle. (only other option would be getting a new feed line which would be a pain to swap out or get a 4" -3AN female/female feed line that could attach to the end of ours and to the restrictor). Then we can order the restrictor and have that taken care of. You were right, the stock feed line is -3AN.

I went back and read through this entire thread last night to see if I missed any kind of information that was given to us and I just missed it, or it didn't make sense to me at the time.

I'm not sure how I missed this the first time, but now it makes perfect sense to me why you said not to worry about the return line; It has already been looked over.
We discussed the possiblity of the drain line being the problem. I guess that the seal between the oil return flange on the turbo was just silicone! I told him to take a close look at the hose to see if there is any in the hose/flange restricting the flow.

I got in contact with a member on the american board that went GT28RS as well and had the exact same problems we had and are having. I asked what he did for the return line because we both agreed it isn't a good design. He said to simply bend it a little so it is more straight to help get rid of the oil, so we can just do that instead of wasting time and money on a new return line.

I got the part numbers for that little O-ring and the gaskets for the return line thanks to the member over there that gave me this link:
http://mazdaspeedkb.com/pdfs/bro2003/2003_Mazdaspeed_Protege_Parts_List.pdf
It has a diagram and a list of all the parts that deal with the turbo, with their part numbers.

We'll go pick those up parts up, I'm guessing they can be found at the dealer. In the diagram from the link it didn't show a gasket on the turbo side of the return line, was there only the one on the engine side of the line when you took it off?

I also just want to do a double check of all the parts we need so we aren't missing anything when it comes down to installing it. Here is what I have, let me know if I'm missing anything at all.

Arranged by:
Have
Ordered/Shipping
Don't have

restrictor
Millenia supercharge PCV
Oil return line o-ring
Oil return line gaskets
hardpipes
intercooler
BOV
Forge Adjustable WGA
spark plugs
spark plug wires
turbo studs
Boost gauge
Turbo gasket
Downpipe Gasket
S to J pipe gasket
Exhaust manifold gasket
rebuilt turbo
Donut Gasket (between j-pipe and cat)
Wideband from timbit
manifold studs
coolant return 90 elbow

Does that look like everything we need? If we're missing anything could you guys let me know?

Thanks for your help with this build so far Kellan, it's been greatly appreciated. Going into it, Kristian and I didn't really know much about turbos, you helped us get everything together and taught me a bunch of stuff about turbos at the same time.

And thanks to everyone else that has given us information so far.

[kz9]

Don't worry about the reutrn elbow. I have the rod for studs. Did the WB come with a threaded bung? If so I will need to weld that in at some point., but at my house....

[psulja]

I'm guessing you mean the o2 sensor bung? If so, yes it does have threads. Is it getting welded into the exhaust mani? I can bring both over, just let me know when, or did you want to do it when the car is up and running?

Edit: Did you say we needed to pick up some nuts or something for the studs or were you doing that?

[timbit]

I'm guessing you mean the o2 sensor bung? If so, yes it does have threads. Is it getting welded into the exhaust mani? I can bring both over, just let me know when, or did you want to do it when the car is up and running?

Edit: Did you say we needed to pick up some nuts or something for the studs or were you doing that?


The wideband needs to be welded into the downpipe. at least 6" AFTER the turbo. NOT into the turbo manifold

[pro5dippin]

from what i've even that may be too close. too close and you'll kill the sensor i think i read 10-16"

[psulja]

Okay, good to know.

[Brian MP5T]

Idle I'm at 10psi and only see higher then 50 when bone cold. I have verified this with an actual Matco Oil pressure gauge....

I agree.

My Oil will go as far as 15 Psi Down Idle when warm and 50 When Hot.

75 For about 2 Min Cold, then it drops.

Also..

The Oil restrictor can be installed with stuff like this..

http://www.toprotege.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14944

[midnitehour]

so finally my advise was taken.:yes:

those are the same type of restrictors I used. stock line will not mount up with those for sure.

Is it something like this?

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-021&Category_Code=

Or this:

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-036&Category_Code=

What size would we be looking at?

[midnitehour]

So I called EVERY Garrett Distributor on their site today and got some good information. The last place I called said that whenever they do a turbo they install a restrictor with it as well, so it would probably be in my best interest to get one. The guy told me that too much pressure is better than not having enough, they've done some cars that run with oil pressure of over 100 psi (Im assuming these are high performance engines). After giving further information, I believe we found the problem. It's a combo of no restrictor along with a poorly designed oil return line.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/returnline.jpg

The oil return line is not designed very well, it does not go straight down, and is definitely more than 15 degrees. It's more like 40 degrees. From what I'm told, ATP can make a custom return line (poss. a custom restrictor to fit my feed line). Kellan will you have a problem installing this?


i would think the more angled it is the better. 45* being best.

oil comes out of the turbo as a foam rather than liquid.

if you've ever poured a glass of beer you know tilting the glass while pouring reduces head.

same concept different media, and volume will not change with the angle.

[psulja]

so finally my advise was taken.:yes:

those are the same type of restrictors I used. stock line will not mount up with those for sure.

But what do you think about the solution I posted a few posts back, about cutting the line and doing a double flare with a female swivel fitting on instead of the male. Do you think that would work or will the only way to do it be getting a new line?

I had no idea the oil comes out as a foam. We though it'd be better if it was a more direct route to the engine w/ out as many bends, but I'm not too sure. Still new to this, remember? hahah

Also, while talking to the guy on the other board with a GT28RS, he said he had problems with his WGA keeping the WG open too much which was making him boost too much. Since we are on stock internals and don't want to blow anything up, do you think it'd be smart to get a new WGA that is meant for the GT28RS and only about 4-8psi?

[KriKet]

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showt...30#post1377030 (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1377030#post1377030)

I like this! Paul I think this is the best option. Thanks guys!

[midnitehour]

Also, while talking to the guy on the other board with a GT28RS, he said he had problems with his WGA keeping the WG open too much which was making him boost too much. Since we are on stock internals and don't want to blow anything up, do you think it'd be smart to get a new WGA that is meant for the GT28RS and only about 4-8psi?

WG being closed will result in more boost.

-open WG = exhaust gases by pass the turbine wheel
-closed WG = exhaust gass through the turbing wheel.

iirc the gt28 uses a slightly different WG when bought new, however i have seen the stocker being used,

if the mounting plate of the stock WG is in the wrong spot it can lead to the flap not opening fully which would mean more boost.

so even if you got a new WG if the flap didn't open properly you'd be in the same boat.

stick to what you have, Harrison's car obviously didn't blow up with the setup, minus the oil issue.

do the standard tests to ensure your WG is good and carry on.

[kz9]

i would think the more angled it is the better. 45* being best.

oil comes out of the turbo as a foam rather than liquid.

if you've ever poured a glass of beer you know tilting the glass while pouring reduces head.

same concept different media, and volume will not change with the angle.


Straight vertical is optimum. Comparing pouring beer to oil return flow is totally different.

[psulja]

WG being closed will result in more boost.

-open WG = exhaust gases by pass the turbine wheel
-closed WG = exhaust gass through the turbing wheel.

iirc the gt28 uses a slightly different WG when bought new, however i have seen the stocker being used,

if the mounting plate of the stock WG is in the wrong spot it can lead to the flap not opening fully which would mean more boost.

so even if you got a new WG if the flap didn't open properly you'd be in the same boat.

stick to what you have, Harrison's car obviously didn't blow up with the setup, minus the oil issue.

do the standard tests to ensure your WG is good and carry on.


Okay, I didn't really know if closed or open made more boost but it makes more sense now. Either way he said the stock one wasn't working with his GT28RS, but I agree, we'll see how it runs now, especially since we'll actually have a boost gauge this time to monitor things :)

Kellan, you'd be doing the install. Knowing that we are going with the restrictor and that it won't fit the current line as-is, how would you want to go about doing it? Does the suggestion from Brian sound good to you?

Edit: Gaskets from Streetunit came in. Probably going to Windsor Mazda to pick up the other things that can be found there. Can the Millenia Supercharged PCV be found there?

[kz9]

iirc you can't use the stock WG with a GT28.....

PCV is from the dealer.

As for the restictor, won't know until its in my hands. I can get whatever fittings you will need....

This week and Weekend are out of the picture for doing anything on the car......

[KriKet]

Ya it doesn't need to be done by Saturday because we are leaving to go snowboarding on Sunday for 6 days.

[psulja]

iirc you can't use the stock WG with a GT28.....

PCV is from the dealer.

As for the restictor, won't know until its in my hands. I can get whatever fittings you will need....

This week and Weekend are out of the picture for doing anything on the car......

Yep, stock WGA shouldn't be used w/ GT28. Ordered the Forge adjustable WGA, with the green spring in it (rated for 4-10psi). We will just have to modify the bracket a little bit.

PCV, return line o-ring, and gasket all ordered and will be here wednesday. I had him double check for the PCV and the part number we got is JE26-13-890. Can anybody confirm? That's the part that's coming so I hope it's the right one.

-3AN restrictor ordered from ATP as well. So this means that if everything we need is on the list then all the parts are on their way. :woot:

Arranged by:
Don't have
Ordered/Shipping
Have

StreetUnit Hardpipes
TurboSmart Manual Boost Controller
XC Single DIN Gauge mounting plate
StreetUnit Custom SMIC
HKS SSQV V2 BOV
Forge Adjustable WGA
NGK spark plugs
NGK Spark Plug wires
Turbo studs
ATP Oil Feed restrictor
Millenia supercharge PCV
Oil return line o-ring
Oil return line gaskets
Prosport Electronic Boost gauge
Turbo gasket
Downpipe Gasket
S to J pipe gasket
Exhaust manifold gasket
Rebuilt GT28RS
Donut Gasket (between j-pipe and cat)
AEM Wideband w/ O2 Sensor
Manifold Studs
Coolant return 90 elbow

I didn't put any lines on there because we'll wait for you to have a look at it before doing anything.

[kz9]

Ya it doesn't need to be done by Saturday because we are leaving to go snowboarding on Sunday for 6 days.


NICE! :yes:

Wish I could go for 6 days. :(

Don't get hurt again :p

[psulja]

Don't get hurt again :p

HAHAHAHAHA! We leave two days after his cast comes off.. I'll be sure to film him on his first few runs :woot:

[KriKet]

I probably won't be on the slopes too often, we will see how it goes. I bought a brace for it so that should help.

[psulja]

As for the restictor, won't know until its in my hands. I can get whatever fittings you will need....

The restrictor came today.. lmk if you want me to bring it by so you can see what to do with it and what fittings we might need.

[KriKet]

You need this:

Straight AN Female to AN Female COUPLER Adaptor

http://www.bakerprecision.com/images/8100-2.jpg

Kellan,

Can you get this part in Windsor, if not I can just order this off their site

http://www.bakerprecision.com (http://www.bakerprecision.com/) part # 81003B

[kz9]

I'd like to see the restrictor before you order anything......

[KriKet]

Alright. I'll wait to see what you think.

[psulja]

So apparently SU shipped out part of the parts already, so we have almost everything now. Just waiting on 4 more parts..

StreetUnit Custom SMIC
Prosport Electronic Oil Pressure Gauge
XC Single DIN Gauge mounting plate
Forge Adjustable WGA
StreetUnit Hardpipes
HKS SSQV V2 BOV
TurboSmart Manual Boost Controller
NGK spark plugs
NGK Spark Plug wires
Turbo studs
ATP Oil Feed restrictor
Millenia supercharge PCV
Oil return line o-ring
Oil return line gaskets
Prosport Electronic Boost gauge
Turbo gasket
Downpipe Gasket
S to J pipe gasket
Exhaust manifold gasket
Rebuilt GT28RS
Donut Gasket (between j-pipe and cat)
AEM Wideband w/ O2 Sensor
Manifold Studs
Coolant return 90 elbow

They sent a couple pipes but not all of them.

I'll pack everything that goes with the turbo and take it with me to my exam and drop it off to you afterwards kellan.

[KriKet]

Kellan, have you had a chance to look at the turbo this weekend?

[kz9]

Its all together. I'll have to take the j-pipe off again when I go to install. (wanted to set the new studs). I even went the extra step and stoned the flanges. Your j-pipe tabs are pretty thin I also noticed. These always rot away.

The WG would have been nice to have too, but not a big deal.

[KriKet]

What does "stoned the flanges" mean? Also, do you have a better idea as to whether or not we need the female-female coupler?

[kz9]

Its a way to clean the flange lets say. That coupler posted wont work. I will be going to see my buddy at Checker to pick up the fitting.

[e2wJunglist]

I'll pack everything that goes with the turbo and take it with me to my exam and drop it off to you afterwards kellan.

Im confused. They let you bring turbo parts to an exam these days?
And when did TOP become a better mode of communication then a cellphone? :confused:

[pro5dippin]

Im confused. They let you bring turbo parts to an exam these days?
And when did TOP become a better mode of communication then a cellphone? :confused:

haha...and its not even his car

[psulja]

Put the RacingHarts on since the car won't be on the road much until the end of march anyways..

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4701.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_4703.jpg

All the parts are here and ready to be installed, other than the hot pipe since StreetUnit messed up with that. Hopefully that'll be here soon enough and the car can be up and running.

[KriKet]

Hot pipe will be here tomorrow! The car will be on the road by the 18th of March b/c my insurance on my old car expires then and i did not renew. If there is still snow on the ground, I will probably just drive my dads car lol

[psulja]

Almost everything is installed except the hot pipe needs to be cut about an inch to fit and then the oil return needs to be bolted up I think.

Updated Engine Bay shot
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/IMG_5239.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/BOVandIntake.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/GT28RSwForgeAdjWGA.jpg

Gauge mounting from XC, just need to peel off the protective plastic before installing.
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/Gauges.jpg

SS FTC and Turbosmart MBC
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/TurbosmartMBCSSFTC.jpg

It should be running this week and then tuning starts.

[thekid]

^ scrap that Turbosmart manual boost controller, I had one, it spiked up to 13psi and settled to 8psi... no good!

[kz9]

^really? wow, better return that if you can! Thats crazy spike.

[psulja]

well that's not good to hear... but we have the forge WGA with the spring in it for 5-10psi (green spring) so that should help with it too.

which would you suggest after we return the turbosmart?

[kz9]

I use a EBC, Greddy profec 2. Spikes are know to happen with MBC's. EBC's are better, but cost more. There most likely are MBC's that work well, but you'd have to research that I have know clue.

This won't affect getting the car on the road cause it will be boosting low untill you get a controller. The WG spring will do fine for now, stock turbos run this way.

[psulja]

Ya, i'm not too worried about it... just will be nice to have the car running :woot: we'll worry about that when the time comes..

[psulja]

So the car runs! still needs to be tuned but it runs. finished it up today thanks to kellan.

everything went well, other than the oil spill in the garage, brakes were seized, and the battery was dead.. but otherwise it's all good...

[e2wJunglist]

This thread is dildos without pics of the build!

[kz9]

I don't like the clear tube I used for the BPV, but other then the mess, it sounds good....

[psulja]

pics will be up when we're done driving it tonight. going on a really mini cruise with msp and p5 right now...

[e2wJunglist]

nice. enjoy!!!

[psulja]

Just got back from the little night time cruise/photoshoot... Took some pictures and videos, but the videos seem to take forever to upload to photobucket, anyone know of a better place, that isn't youtube.

Also ran into another red P5 on the way back and pointed him towards this site, had quite a bit of appearance mods done, and an exhaust, not sure what else.

It still smells like burning coolant though so it won't be driven too much until kellan can take a look at it.

But here are some of the pictures from tonight and when i find a way to post videos i'll post the videos somewhere.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4572.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4588.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4597.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4602.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4605.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4611.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4619.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4620.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4626.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4632.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4633.jpg

Sorry for so many pics... let me know what you think of them, first time taking night time shots, it was kind of hard to get them to be focused, and it was just a point-and-shoot canon.

I'll post some engine bay shots later... or you can just see them in the video once those go up..

[psulja]

Looks like photobucket decided to work now, so i'll try this out for posting them... here's the first video, the startup... kind of funny...

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/th_itsalive.jpg (http://s611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/?action=view&current=itsalive.flv)

EDIT: the last few went a lot quicker than expected so here they are... the flybys were done at about half throttle or a little more, just because it can't be pushed all that much right now, or we don't want to so it doesn't blow up since we don't know how much boost it's at.


Don't mind the rev fest...
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/th_Upload3.jpg (http://s611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/?action=view&current=Upload3.flv)


Both flybys were done pretty slow, but gives the general sound of the HKS SSQV V3 BOV... better ones will come later after the tune.
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/th_Upload2.jpg (http://s611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/?action=view&current=Upload2.flv)

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/th_Upload1.jpg (http://s611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/?action=view&current=Upload1.flv)

[KriKet]

All I can say is.....WOOT! I cant believe I can finally drive this bad boy! Thanks to Kellan and Paul for all the help.

[psulja]

I figured i may as well go get pics of the engine bay before the car is gone, so here are some of it finished (for now... new valve cover still needs to come)

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4653.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4652.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4650.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4647.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/MSP%20and%20P5%20night%20photoshoot/IMG_4654.jpg

[KriKet]

Going to try and get the windsheild fixed in the next few days. I have to order a new coolant elbow because the one i have is leaking.

[kz9]

The coolant smell might be from that elbow leaking. Or do you smell or see thick white from the exhaust?

[thekid]

I've found MSP's to be notorious for a coolant smell and it's normally related to a small leak in areas like that special elbow.

[joghia]

Looks good and sounds good too! You are VTA with your MAF in the stock location, how does the car run like that?

[thekid]

Hot pipe will be here tomorrow! The car will be on the road by the 18th of March b/c my insurance on my old car expires then and i did not renew. If there is still snow on the ground, I will probably just drive my dads car lol

How did you go for a cruise last night if you don't have insurance on the car?

[andrew2]

^ Temporary plates.

[psulja]

And the insurance was back on before so we can take it to Kellan's for tuning.

[thekid]

^ Temporary plates.

Don't provide insurance.

But apparently according to Psjula's post the insurance is back on it.

[00bluees]

i love how most of the updates come from buddies and not the car owner. let the man do it himself, its his car! :p

good to see its back on the streets again, enjoy it.

[psulja]

i love how most of the updates come from buddies and not the car owner. let the man do it himself, its his car! :p

good to see its back on the streets again, enjoy it.

Well all the pics and videos were on my camera so it was easier this way, and he has more of a life than his 'buddies' hahah

[voy89]

looks and sounds nice, hope to see it soon

[dead_cactus]

Congrats on getting it back on the road.

What's next for the MSP?

[KriKet]

I've had insurance on the car since Feb 8th b/c I thought the car would be running sooner than it did. StreetUnit took a long time getting the parts to me, plus I kept adding to my order, lol. I have temp. plates on the car right now, used up my second sticker which runs out on the 11th. At that time I will transfer the plates from my old car to the MSP, just need to get it a safety done.

Tomorrow I get the new front window installed ($250 installed). I will have almost everything I need to get the car safetied. I believe Kellan noticed that there is one more thing I need to do for the safety also.

We still have to have all the gauges installed(boost,air/fuel,oil press.), and I am still looking for an oil pressure gauge (ProSport 52mm). Waiting for Spin-E to send me pics of the one he is selling. The ftc still has to go in the car, not sure what we are doing with the MBC. Also have a new valve cover going in as well, lol. So, after that my next move with the MSP will be new brakes and rotors, and probably suspension.

When I drove the car home last night, I could def. smell coolant. Im sure it was still burning off from being burped, but the elbow is for sure leaking and I am going to get it fixed. Looking into what I should get. I also drove my car today and all was well and I did not smell coolant. :D

Look forward to seeing everyone at the meet, which we should have soon!

[voy89]

where are you getting the windshield from, I need to replace mine this year

[Shasta]

This thread is dildos without pics of the build!

lmao

[KriKet]

I got it from Expert Auto Glass on Jefferson

[KriKet]

Had some stuff added to the car this weekend. New brake lines and a thermal exhaust that I bought off Kellan. Two out of the three gauges were also installed, air/fuel and boost. Still need to get an oil pressure gauge.

Last week the CEL came on and i need a new O2 sensor. So tomorrow Kellan will be installing that along with the new coolant elbow. Also taking the car in tomorrow to get the alarm looked at since it is acting weird.

The heat shield also got cleaned and polished today thanks to psulja.

Im thinking about getting a new deck, saw a really nice alpine one that I liked at Future Shop for only $210. Will pick that up sometime soon :yes:

[kz9]

I take it you like the sound? We should make a trip to CT tomorrow and get a bigger tip on it. I had a bigger tip on it when I had it on the car, only clamp on tho.....

[psulja]

There was nothing good at CT that would've worked, they all started out too small. But he says "it doesn't sound much different but it'll do"...

Here's the pics of the HeatShield...

Before:
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/0308001204.jpg
After:
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/paulsulja/0308001659.jpg

That wastegate is definitely working now, I could hardly get it to hit 5 psi today. It's staying around 4psi max usually. It's definitely slower than before, but also much much safer! The AFR was all over the place (obviously from the bad o2 sensor). When I was on throttle it was around 12 or 11, and sometimes down to 10, but between shifts or when idling it was all the way at 15 or sometimes even 17.7..

[Shasta]

^ Holy, that looks fantastic. Whos Silvia is that?

[midnitehour]

where does that clear hose go?

[andrew2]

^ Holy, that looks fantastic. Whos Silvia is that?

Not his lol

[kz9]

where does that clear hose go?

Using BPV with a BOV. Eventually he will change it. Or I might even get him later to retrelocate the MAF and get rid of the BPV.

For now it runs......

[00bluees]

Not his lol

i know this is offtopic but are you and psulja the same person?? or do neither of you have a protege and live vicariously through kriket??

[voy89]

i know this is offtopic but are you and psulja the same person?? or do neither of you have a protege and live vicariously through kriket??

andrew and psulja are brothers, lol it's funny when they make posts sometimes, seems like it's one person posting

[voy89]

I take it you like the sound? We should make a trip to CT tomorrow and get a bigger tip on it. I had a bigger tip on it when I had it on the car, only clamp on tho.....
if you're talking about tip for exhaust I got this (not sure if you like the style) :

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii244/wojtek89/Picture002-1.jpg

[KriKet]

I think that opening is too small, needs to be 2.5". We will just check CT tomorrow, hopefully there is more selection at the one in Riverside

[psulja]

i know this is offtopic but are you and psulja the same person?? or do neither of you have a protege and live vicariously through kriket??

We are brothers. KriKet is dating our sister. :confused:

Andrew has a '03 P5, I do the work on the car for him and find the mods he should get since I'm poor, which is the main reason I'm on here, and now to find info for KriKet's MSP too..

I'm saving for a 95-96 240sx, while helping both Kriket and Andrew with their cars.

[00bluees]

We are brothers. KriKet is dating our sister. :confused:

Andrew has a '03 P5, I do the work on the car for him and find the mods he should get since I'm poor, which is the main reason I'm on here, and now to find info for KriKet's MSP too..

I'm saving for a 95-96 240sx, while helping both Kriket and Andrew with their cars.

he is lucky you guys are helping him then!!! :lol:

[psulja]

very lucky.....

But this is kind of related to his MSP. I'm trying to take out the mounting brackets for the stock MSP sub&amp. I got half of the one on the passenger side out, but the other half seems to go into the metal of the car and the bolt is just spinning. How can I get behind there to stop the nut or whatever's attached to stop spinning? Same problem on the driver's side too. And then I have to do something with the ground that's in there and get the wires out of the brackets :(

[midnitehour]

mounting brackets for what?

[psulja]

whoops... the stock sub and amp lol.. my bad.. i'll edit that one now lol.. but any ideas of how to get those sub/amp mounting brackets out?

[dead_cactus]

^ I've never really looked at the MSP sub and amp rack but I would assume you would need to remove the rear parcel shelf to access the nuts.

[voy89]

whoops... the stock sub and amp lol.. my bad.. i'll edit that one now lol.. but any ideas of how to get those sub/amp mounting brackets out?
real easy, I think it's only 4 bolts, I'll check later

[psulja]

real easy, I think it's only 4 bolts, I'll check later
I thought it was easy too until i was in the trunk trying to undo 2 of the bolts and they didn't want to come out. They just spun in their place. I think there's 6 bolts, two of them didn't want to move.

[KriKet]

Kellan put in the coolant elbow last night and the new O2 sensor. He also put in the MBC.

We went to CT, I bought an exhaust tip and he welded that on also.

The car runs great and I'm up to about 7-8 psi now!

[e2wJunglist]

The sub brackets are a PITA to remove. I didn't even bother. They are just a few bolts but they dont budge at all. Also the brackets have some wire harness and crap on it (driver side).

[vtec-this]

dont just leave those wires lying around, one is the power line running straight from the battery, make sure you unhook it first.

[psulja]

So I almost got it all out. Had to pop off the rear speaker deck cover (which doesn't actually have any speakers lol) to turn the nut from the inside while Kristian held it from the outside. All the brackets are out but the driver's side is just sitting there, how do you get the two wires out of the driver's side bracket? And what are those wires for? We're thinking to just cut a slit in the bracket and slip the wires through, hopefully it won't do too much to the strength of the bracket.

Oh and the car sounds great now with the tip on there, it seems to make it sound much deeper than when it just stopped at the 2.5" in behind the bumper.

Edit: Where should I put that thing that the wires attach to once it's all loose? Just bolt it to the side of the trunk?

[e2wJunglist]

Those speaker deck covers have a small harness attached to them that null the 6x9's that can go in there. I suggest buying a pair and dropping them in. Audio is ++ with speakers in every hold possible. Noomo