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Logan
June 27th, 2003, 11:38 AM
I think this will be a good thread for anyone interested in this.

This information is for FRONT WHEEL DRIVE CARS ONLY.

When competing with your car in autox/solo events, the common practice is to increase tire pressures.
Why?
When competing on these tight courses, you are transfering load to and from your tires quicker than normal street driving.
The most basic reason for increasing pressure is to prevent the tire from "rolling" in a corner. If the tire rolls, you are then using the side of the tire for traction, instead of the tread. In worse case scenarios, you could roll the tire off the rim.
Nobody wants that!
There is an optimal setting for each tire, depending on drive/course/weather conditions.
A good idea is to increase front tire pressures to approx. 40lbs. This will prevent rolling while still offering good traction.
You can then fine tune your pressures with a few different methods.
The best way is to use a Pyrometer. This device measures the temperature of the tread. Use one IMMEDIATELY following your run. Even temperature across the tire indicates perfect tire pressure, as you are using ALL of the tread for grip. Higher temps in the middle means you are using the middle of the tread more than the outside, you do not have optimal grip. Higher temp on the outside indicates you are using the outside more than the middle, again, you do not have optimal grip.
What if you don't have a pyrometer? Use some shoe polish on the edges of the tire where the tread runs onto the side.
If after a run all the shoe polish has rubbed off the side, your pressure is too low and the tire is rolling.
If after a run ALL the shoe polish is still on, the pressure is too high. Ideally you will have shoe polish rubbed off the edge just a bit.
Notice how I haven't talked about rear tires?
You can use the pressure of the rear tires to change the handling of the car.
By changing the pressure of the tire (up or down) you are changing how much of the tread is in contact with the surface you are on. If you want the back to be loose, add some pressure to the tire. This will overinflate the tire, pushing the middle of the tread out more than the edges, now you have less tread in contact with the surface making your car loose in the back.
If you find your car tough to control in corners, try letting some pressure OUT of the rear tires, this will allow more of the tread to be in contact with the surface, now offering more grip and making the back of the car "stickier".
Tire pressure adjustments should be made in 2lb increments.

OK, I'm now waiting for people to argue with me on the rear pressure theories!
GO!

gsxrpete
June 27th, 2003, 11:46 AM
Thanks doug....

Makes more than enough sense... Are there air compressors at or near these events to be able to adjust??

For all those about to argue.. I am thinking about getting into autox and could use all the usefull info I can get. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif   But don't make me dizzy!! http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif

Thanks in advance

Peter

Logan
June 27th, 2003, 11:48 AM
No,
You'll need to come prepared to adjust pressures.
Some people stop at service stations before getting to the event.
I have a mini pump I bring. It's noisy, but it works.

superdave
June 27th, 2003, 12:01 PM
All is true in my mind. My most successful pressure had been 47-48 front and 52 rear. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

/edit: 205/50/15 Falken Azenis Sport on 15x6.5" Konig Heliums.

gsxrpete
June 27th, 2003, 12:10 PM
I'm guessing this would this also depend on type of tire / profile etc...??

Logan
June 27th, 2003, 12:16 PM
It depends a LOT on tire size, and rubber compound.
I have race tires.
My last event I started a run with 40 front and 44 rear.
At the end of the run I was at 46 all around.

I'm going to try lower pressures next time.

Mike_Moss
June 27th, 2003, 12:52 PM
i'm running 195/60/14 Falken Azenis on OEM 14x5.5 alloys.

i'm still fine tuning, but my range cold is 46-48 front 52-54 rear.

i like rotation. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

rowan
June 27th, 2003, 12:54 PM
Race tires have a very stiff sidewall compared to street tires. That is why people tend to run them at lower pressures.

For a 40-series tire on a 17" rim, 38 or 40 lbs pressure should be adequate up front and then adjust the back as Logan mentioned to change the handling of the car.

It's much easier to start higher with your pressures and then go down, so maybe you want to fill up to 44 lbs all around at a gas station, then adjust at the event.

gsxrpete
June 27th, 2003, 02:11 PM
Thanks... You guys have been great! I hope to see you out there this weekend http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Oh man... I'm gonna hurt myself!! http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif

7plymaple
June 27th, 2003, 05:02 PM
Yeah I got here late but your not getting away without hearing my two cents. Ant my two cents is.... What Doug said. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif  

Oh and Id like to add that rember the optimum pressure for the rear tires is going to be a bit lower than the front because theres less weight back there. From what I have gatherd from the results of trying stuff is that FF cars are just way easyer to understeer than they are to oversteer. So to balance it out you put the rear tires over the optimum pressure to make them lose traction at the same time as the front. Or at least untill they lose traction where you like them to in relation to where the front tires start to slide.

It all depends on your driving style .

First find out what pressure suits your front tires. Turn in hard to the point of understeer at different pressures and take not of how much they roll at each pressure. Once you find a pressure that you are happy with in terms of the amount of roll and the steering response, then put the rear tires about 5 lbs higher and try a few runs and adjust the rear pressures to losen or tighten the rear.

With my street tires I used about 5lbs more in the rear, arround 48 in the front and 53 in the back. With my R compounds however I have changed my style to where I flick the car side to side much quicker thanks to the grip so the back can work up a lot of momentum to slide out through slaloms. So I find Im using only 2 or 3 lbs higher in the rear now.

Sentra Racer 7
August 6th, 2003, 07:47 PM
With our team Sentras, we found our optimum pressures to be 34f/46r (cold) which go up to 38/39front 50/51rear (hot)
I run the same for autoX and Solo I

Logan
August 6th, 2003, 08:11 PM
After this pasts weekend CAEC (and some time on the skidpad/test-n-tune day) I have found 42f and 33r (slow course) 36r (fast course) to work for me.
The car is quite loose with 33r, which works on a slow course, but when the course is fast like it was, the car was hard to control in heavy braking before corners, I upped it to 36 and had SO much more control in braking.
Edit:
This is Kumho V700's

Mike_Moss
August 7th, 2003, 10:18 AM
i've played with pressures since my last post and now i run 47 front and 48-50 rear...i'm trying to stop driving like i do in the snow and instead grip...its working quite well. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Logan
August 7th, 2003, 10:23 AM
You'd better not be faster than me this weekend...

That goes for Simon too.

Mike_Moss
August 7th, 2003, 10:34 AM
give me r's and i'll beat you! haha...just kidding. http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif


i need/hate money.

7plymaple
August 7th, 2003, 03:43 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Logan @ Aug. 07 2003,11:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You'd better not be faster than me this weekend...

That goes for Simon too.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sorry Doug... I have a feelin your whole FAMILYS goin down! http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif