My Turbo build

[kz9]

Well I am going to start a thread about my turbo install so people can drop me some pointers or "watch outs". Also as a scrap book.


To start as some of you know I bought LockdownsP5's old turbo, off of johnny5 (ryan). I think I know why it was pasted down to me.

Today I started to actually work on it. I sand blasted the turbo and exhaust parts. The turbo looks ok, the s-pipe looks okay, BUT the manifold is shot. I will post some pics but the block flange and #3 primary weld are cracked. I am going to try to re-weld and brace this manifold better to relive some of the stress. But I might have to start fresh.

Does anyone no where I could possibly get another ss flange?

[kz9]

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_29_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_30_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_31_full.jpg

[kz9]

The big list:

-ES custom intercooled turbo kit
-Bullen custom down/mid-pipe
-Thermal R&D 3" exhaust (running no cat)
-AEM EMS with wideband o2 sensor
-AEM adjustible fuel pressure reg.
-Walbro fuel pump
-Greddy Profec B spec II boost contorller
-Greddy full turbo timer
-Greddy oil catch canister
-Greddy Type R BOV
-Oil cooler kit
-740cc WRX injectors
-JDM FZ-ZE intake cam
-UD pulley and cam gears
-Spec stage 3 clutch
-SS clutch and brake lines
-Boring TB to 60mm
-Thermal spacers
-AWR engine mounts
-MX-6 IM? (waiting to hear back from Tekkie)


And a lot of little extras.

[tekkie]

Are you talking about the WRX 440 cc injectors? 740 is twice what your going to need on stock rods. I have never maxed out my 440's yet even at 16psi, and I know people have made 350whp on race gas with them.

And before you jump and buy the AEM I would do some serious research, I had planned on buying that but after talking with alot of people its not worth it, alot of money, and very complicated to tune.

Its hard to tell from that pic of the manifold but it looks like it just needs to be re-welded, a 5 minute job.

did you check that turbo for shaft play?

[kz9]

I got the 740cc because it was a great price $200can. I know 3 people in town running the EMS and they say it is great and it almost can tune itself.(with wideband)

What other ems is there that will tone down those 740cc.

There seems to be no shaft play in the turbo. Nothing, no in/out or up/down.

the flange is cracked right though, but the gasket might take care of that.

[tiwing]

i've read somewhere that UD pulleys aren't recommended for FI applications. I'd look around for some lightweight OEM size pulleys. Do a couple of searches on msprotege and I'm sure more stuff will come up on it.

[kz9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tiwing @ Nov. 13 2005,9:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i've read somewhere that UD pulleys aren't recommended for FI applications. I'd look around for some lightweight OEM size pulleys. Do a couple of searches on msprotege and I'm sure more stuff will come up on it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Really? huh. I will have to do some R&amp;D. Anyone else heard about this?

[Scooter]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kz9 @ Nov. 13 2005,9:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tiwing @ Nov. 13 2005,9:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i've read somewhere that UD pulleys aren't recommended for FI applications. I'd look around for some lightweight OEM size pulleys. Do a couple of searches on msprotege and I'm sure more stuff will come up on it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Really? huh. I will have to do some R&amp;D. Anyone else heard about this?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I seem to remember reading this somewhere as well. But I can't say for sure.

[YP5 Toronto]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kz9 @ Nov. 13 2005,9:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I got the 740cc because it was a great price $200can. I know 3 people in town running the EMS and they say it is great and it almost can tune itself.(with wideband)

What other ems is there that will tone down those 740cc.

There seems to be no shaft play in the turbo. Nothing, no in/out or up/down.

the flange is cracked right though, but the gasket might take care of that.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
........the 740cc ARE TOOO BIG. Regardless of what type of deal you got on them...they will cause more problems that you can imagine.

I am running (I still have the car) 10psi of boost on stock injectors.

This has nothing to do with tuning. You will have next to no ability to tune (let alone fine tune) idle and out of boost driving with 740cc.

Please trust me on this one...LOOSE the 740cc

[YP5 Toronto]

Forget the UD pully...its benefits are miniscule compared to the boost advantages.

Limit the number of variables that you have to consider when taking on this project...

go with a LSD or a flywheel...spend your money elsewhere

[YP5 Toronto]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kz9 @ Nov. 13 2005,9:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the flange is cracked right though, but the gasket might take care of that.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
the crack will only continue to get bigger over time if it is not properly welding back together.

[kz9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (YP5 Toronto @ Nov. 13 2005,10:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Forget the UD pully...its benefits are miniscule compared to the boost advantages.  

Limit the number of variables that you have to consider when taking on this project...

go with a LSD or a flywheel...spend your money elsewhere[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I thought that a heavier flywheel is better than a lite when you are FI. Doesn't help with rpm between shifts?

As for the injectors. Isn't 740cc just what they are capalbe of? I was told that they can run any cc UP to 740cc.

Maybe I'm wrong. Thank you for the heads up. I know a guy with an STI that will buy them if it goes wrong.

How much do LSD go for? And who makes on?

[kz9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (YP5 Toronto @ Nov. 13 2005,10:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kz9 @ Nov. 13 2005,9:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the flange is cracked right though, but the gasket might take care of that.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
the crack will only continue to get bigger over time if it is not properly welding back together.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am going to TIG it back up. I will also be making a bracket to take the turbo wieght off of the manifold.

[Aitch]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kz9 @ Nov. 13 2005,10:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for the injectors. Isn't 740cc just what they are capable of? I was told that they can run any cc UP to 740cc.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
From what I understand, the injectors are capable of 740cc/min at their max duty cycle (amount of open pulses). For a given signal from the ECU, the injector opens a set amount, but a higher rated injector will flow more fuel than the stock ones.

This means that when you go to idle and low throttle situations, for a given ECU signal you are still flowing significantly more fuel than with the stock injectors. So to get the right amount of fuel, you have to tone down the signal from the ECU (as you would using the AEM, or other controller). But just like an injector has problems operating above 85% of their max duty cycle, they also have problems with very low amounts of fuel (narrow opening pulses). So it is very hard to accurately tune this range of fuel, especially when using the narrow range of ECU signal adjustment available to control this range of injector pulses.

I think that's all right. I'm bored and that's what I remember about injectors. If any of it is wrong, please correct it.

[YP5 Toronto]

All these numbers are just examples...I dont have time to get into the real math

Duty Cycle =  pulses of open and close

Stock Protege

Fuel Rail PSI = 45psi
Idle Duty Cycle = 5%
Fuel Delivery = 1 shot glass of fuel a minute (just an easy illustration)
A/F Ratio = Good

When I go to boost...say at 14psi.
Fuel Rail PSI = 59psi
Duty Cycle = 100% (not ideal...stressing the injectors...risking failure)
Fuel Delivery = 2 shot glasses
A/F Raion = Good

So...if I want to boost higher....what can I do?  my injectors are maxed out.  I can:

1) Increase the fuel rail pressure via a Fuel Pressure Reg /  Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Reg (Flying Protege and Spool Turbo kits use variations).

2) Change the injectors and have something manage them

So..I Install 740cc

Fuel Rail PSI = 45psi
Idle Duty Cycle = 5%
Fuel Delivery = 2 shot glass of fuel
A/F Ratio = HORRIBLE...to much fuel..bad idle, bad drivability

I cant do much here...duty is already at 5%.  I can lower the fuel rail pressure...but I run the risk of bad flow patterns and poor consistancy in fuel delivery. Even doing this you WILL not be able to get the righ mix with 740cc

When I go to boost...say at 18psi
Fuel Rail PSI = 59psi
Duty Cycle = 70% duty (nice and low..lots of room to boost higher)
Fuel Delivery = 2 shot glasses
A/F Raion = Good


Again..the above are just examples...dont post and try to correct me with math.

The point is...you can not run 740ccs.

Where are these 740cc from?  What is it rated MINIMUM fuel pressure for proper operation?  


I mean this in a very positive way...it would seem that you need to do a lot more research onhow an aftermarket ECU interacts with fuel delivery and how those two work with boost applications.

The easiest route is just to go like FM, Spool and (Dare I say) essiential speed uses...a voltage switch and a good FMU/RRFPR (fuel pressure reg).

Then...later go into an AEM (which is not easy to use as people say).

[tekkie]

I am with Jason on this one, the 740 injectors are way to big, you dont need them for a non build motor. If you were running a big turbo with a shitload of boost then it might be worth it. The stock injectors are 280cc so these things are almost 3 times the size of the originals and like Jason said tuning is a bitch.

I dont care what your friends are telling you about the AEM none of them have it in a protege I am positive of that. We are telling you right now you are going to spend a shitload of money on tuning that thing and getting all the bugs worked out, especially with those huge injectors. Who do you know that has a perfectly running Protege and AEM? I know of nobody, I know a couple people who tried it and they wished they never did cause they lost a shitload of money into it and in the end got rid of it and put in something else. If you want a moneypit AEM looks like the way to go. Until someone gets it working perfectly I am staying away because being a guinea pig for that thing = alot of wasted money.

The AEM is an amazing system but for running 10psi or so on a stock motor its a complete waste of money because your not going to do much more on that than you would on an emanage, mpi, microtech, hell even the DSM AFC is all you need.

I bet you will spend at least 5 hours on the dyno to tune it where you could get something else that will be there for 1 hr.

I plan to run my GT2871R at 25psi and I dont want 740cc injectors I think I can get away with something around 600 but I have not been able to find a good deal on anything that size yet. You want to run as small as you can get away with, with some extra of course.

Btw what color are those injectors you have? are they blue or pink? if they are blue they are the 440's, however there is a way to modify them so they work as bigger injectors. The problem there is if its not done properly then they work slightly different which causes problems. So you really need to have those flow tested to make sure thats not the case.

and as far as the UP for the couple hp your going to gain its not worth the risk imo, turn the boost up another psi and your at the same level anyway

and like Jason said LSD = much better investment than AEM. For the price of the AEM you can buy a LSD and and a basic fuel management system http://www.toprotege.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[drumsbeloud]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kz9 @ Nov. 13 2005,10:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I thought that a heavier flywheel is better than a lite when you are FI. Doesn't help with rpm between shifts?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
i was thinking this way prior to my turbo instal and ended up just getting a clutch and machining the flywheel. if i had to do it again though, i'd get a light flywheel as i'm pretty sure the positives would outweigh this negative.

[kz9]

Well I guess I will be the first. There is no ecu on the market that can match the features of the AEM. I don't want to cheap out on this project.

As for the injectors.....

They are blue. And yes that is the colour of the 440cc. The guy I bought them from said he had them tweaked for 740cc. I don't know if this is true, it is ebay. He said there will be a flow chart with them.

Listen guys.....

Next winter the bottom end goes under the knife. So I will be trying to push high boost levels out of this. And I figure I will need a good EMS and big injectors to do this. Am I right?

I will keep the 740cc or 440cc. out this year on the low boost. (I don't have them yet) I still want to press 14psi or so and see what will happen.

As for tuning. The guys that run EMS on their cars(2 civics, and 2 talons) told me lastnight that he can set up a base-map and tune it while driving. That is with a wideband. He had this system when it first came out, This was back when SOS was still in business. I even helped with the install.(I had to tap a few things and get my good deal on braided lines). I guess this is why this system is so great. He has been running it for sometime now and he would be doing my tuning. Or at least coming to the dyno to keep an eye on things. He did all the other guys cars and they have not had a problem.

And I know you guys are going to say &quot;but it is a civic&quot;. I know that, but it is an engine. As for the DSM's, Aren't these one of the worst cars ever for being a bitch to tune? (I think I read that in PAS) All of these guys are pushing high boost.... BUT.... the AEM lets them run low boost on street conditions so they are not burning out their engines.

I have seen this system in use and you can actually hear the engine switch settings. That is no lie.

[kz9]

And I will probley be sending out the turbo to be re-built. I told those guys about it lastnight and they said that I should have it sent out. They are going to get back to me on the place to send it to.

[tekkie]

Civics running AEM = lots, there is specific ones for it

Protege running AEM = none

Beau has been working on this for a long time and he has not gotten it to work properly yet. I have met the guy that does the tuning and that guy knows his shit big time, and not just the AEM he knows alot of different systems.

Goto the Subbie boards and ask about those modified injectors and ask them how many people have had issues, ALOT, especially if some guy hacked them int he bst. They are not trues 740 cc injectors so each of the 4 may act slightly different. So that alone is going to pose problems, put that with the huge injectors and the AEM your asking for alot of problems and alot of money.

And where are you going to use all the features of the AEM at?

sorry man I am not trying to be negative but sometimes people just get themselves over their head and I am telling you thats what your setting yourself up for

[YP5 Toronto]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tekkie @ Nov. 14 2005,12:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Beau has been working on this for a long time and he has not gotten it to work properly yet. I have met the guy that does the tuning and that guy knows his shit big time, and not just the AEM he knows alot of different systems.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well....that does put things into perspective. Beau is one of the best out there.

The point that we are trying to make is more about setting the right expectations and this is vital in spending your money in the right areas.

If they are 440cc modified to 740cc (the dremel something off, cut something else) then...I would stress even MORE not to use these things. It is a hack way of increasing flow rates.


It would seem that you have a good budget to work with....so find some properly sized injectors and loose these 740cc. Sell them.

[kz9]

Well I like the nos staging along with 2 stage starts. Also I like the fact that you can have multiple settings. You are not going to be using drag set-up for street and visa-versa. Also this guy says that he has a trip setting. He says that he can save alot of money on gas on long trips.

As for those injectors.... I called my friend with the STI, he must have read the same thing as you guys did because he doesn't want them anymore!

So now I need new injectors. Any refrence on those.

What other ems should I use. I was thinking Greddy, but I was told that I won't work either. I want total control over everything. I also would like something that will control nos as well.

I want the show aspect as well. So I have to keep that in mind. And AEM EMS will be big points. I am going to give AEM a e-mail about this. Hopefully they might shed some light on the problem.


Well, my welders at my shop are going to do a re-build on the manifold. They said that they are going to make it perfect. No inside restiction.

Today I started on my intake piping. As you know ES does not make the nicest looking piping. I am smoothing out all welds so it look seamless. The first pipe is almost done, and I will post pics.

Should I just leave these pipes bare or do some kind of coating?

I appreaciate all of you guys pointers. I am a VERY hard headed person, so somethings just have to be drilled into my head for me to understand. Its just, I had a plan and so far nothing is going right. I am starting to get very frustrated, and almost don't want to do it.

Another thing is that I can't get parts! No one seems to want to sell me anything. Except for Brian, he has helped out lots and I thank him. I will be intouch with him, it is just I want some price comparison.

[kz9]

Link to the Ebay page for those injectors

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot....hosting (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8009586567&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting)

[xJethro]

Bro, at what PSI do you plan on boostin?
I don't mean to be negative or anything but your going
FI + Nitrous on a stock motor? Would it be safe to rebuild
the motor than be sorry later on?

BTW, I give you props for doin this project...I hope to see
it next year http://www.toprotege.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif

[tekkie]

First I dont know much about points at car shows, but I really cant see how your going to get alot of points for having AEM, but I could be wrong on that. Some other guys might be able to help you there.

As for the the Greddy it will work I have been using it for a year, the ultimate has not been proven to work but I think it will.

As stated already for what your doing you dont need anything more than 440 injectors, just get the regular unmodified WRX ones. Maybe next year you may need to upgrade them to something else but this is by far your best option for the year. You can always sell them next year and then buy something else, they are not that expensive so your not really going to lose any money on it.

Talk with Steve (Turfburn) from msprotege.com about the microtech that is probably your best option.

For the pipes, get them either ceramic or powdercoated, it will give it a bit of insulation, help it from rusting and it looks great, especially for car shows.

WHat are you talking about nobody will help you with parts? who are you talking to man because I dont have any issues getting parts.

but if I read your post right NOS? NOS and turbo on stock motor = huge boom (waiting for Brian to post pic of hole in block lol)

[kz9]

Well I know shows. The more blinky and high tech shit you have (as long as it is not a hack job) the better the score.

Isn't the ulimate and regular 'system' basicly the same? I know there is some differences but I think they are just upgraded. User interface I think?

Tekkie I think you told me it wasn't going to work? The Ultimate I mean.

That was my first plan so I will be going back to that.

Ultimate E-manage it is!

It will go with my Greddy theme.

As for the NOS.... I will probely upgrade to the WET system as for it will cause less harm than a dry system. I will not be running a 75shot like I am now, probely just a 35shot.

Its mostly for the show aspect. But I will be using a intercooler ring.

Nos is not safe! I know this.

I think Brian blew his engine at like 220 at 6500rpm criusing. I won't be doing this.

[tekkie]

as far as I know only one guy tried the ultimate, it is way more advanced than the basic system

When I say I think it will work I mean over time, right now it may or may not, supposedly the guys that tried it were good with those systems but who knows. There have been new firmware updates since so it might be resolved already.

It really does not matter if its dry or wet nos, either way your problem is the Rods, 14psi and 35 shot of NOS = blown motor. Wet will make your car run richer which is why its considered safer, but again your problem is the rods not your car running lean.

If you want to spend your money wisely invest in a built motor because with these plans you will be scrambling to replace the motor in a hurry once it blows. Remember that it takes 2-4 months to get a built motor so if you blow your stock one your without the car, you have alot of work ahead of you, alot of money, and alot of downtime. Our rods suck ass http://www.toprotege.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[YP5 Toronto]

there is nothing to be gained with NOS on a FI system...

UNLESS you have maxed out the FI setup to the 10th degree. You'd have to have some of the world's best tuning to properly run a HIGH boost setup with NOS.

Concentrate on one thing ...FI.

If you are looking for &quot;points&quot; and to show off..then go with a Intercooler Ring and spray CO2 on it.

We are not trying to burst your bubble...but give you a realistic perspective.

Between Tekkie and I (and a few others on the board), we have a lot of personal experience and shared in many converstations with others in the US over the past 3 years.

[cruisinblackp5]

go dp if you are running n2o please, its your best bet to save either one or four, I cant remember the order but if you look at the intake layout you can see where the puddle will occur.

[tekkie]

yeah dp is what I plan to do if I do it, but I plan that to be the last thing for the motor

tuning the car is hard enough, tuning it with Nitrous makes it even more difficult again http://www.toprotege.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[tiwing]

i've been watching this thread with interest - and not adding anything b/c others are way more smarter (duh) than me on this stuff. As Jason said, it doesn't make sense to me to add NOS to a boosted motor. Wouldn't it be better just to up the boost adn essentially accomplish the same thing? There are EBCs that will allow you to have variable boost settings based on throttle position, rpm range, or speed (turbosmart, and Blitz I know can do this). ... Just asking 'cause I don't understand the why behind this.

[tekkie]

the boost is much easier to control than NOS is which is why its better to stick with just upping the boost

the turbo will benefit alot from having NOS, in fact it will benefit more than a NA car

however its hard to control and for such small power it does not make sense

for show yes, but for go its a last resort, the only reason I plan to install it is for drag racing

[cruisinblackp5]

See you use to use N2O for smaller turbos because the big T3/T4s took forever to build boost, so one would use a quick shot to get off the line and begin that snail spinning and then by the time you had ahieved positive pressure there was no need for any N20 and it would be cut. Best way to do this was with a RPM switch, rather than the current TPS that most people use now. With therecent advancements in turbo design there is rarely a for dual power adders. The GT series from HKS and Garret can spool fast enough and can be mixed and matched to flow for just about any engine at any HP rating and still be efficient. The only other times Ive heard of people using both were for stock FI cars that didnt upgrade the turbo and simply added N2O once the turbo became inefficient.

[tekkie]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cruisinblackp5 @ Nov. 15 2005,3:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">See you use to use N2O for smaller turbos because the big T3/T4s took forever to build boost, so one would use a quick shot to get off the line and begin that snail spinning and then by the time you had ahieved positive pressure there was no need for any N20 and it would be cut. Best way to do this was with a RPM switch, rather than the current TPS that most people use now. With therecent advancements in turbo design there is rarely a for dual power adders. The GT series from HKS and Garret can spool fast enough and can be mixed and matched to flow for just about any engine at any HP rating and still be efficient. The only other times Ive heard of people using both were for stock FI cars that didnt upgrade the turbo and simply added N2O once the turbo became inefficient.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Mark thats so true, I had not really even thought about that portion since I really never saw much old school stuff http://www.toprotege.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Aitch]

^ posted @ 4:20........ that is all.

[kz9]

Once again my bubble has been popped! Okay NOS no good on the turbo but I can still use it on the intercooler ring and the purge. I have the set-up so I might aswell use it.

Maybe I have to high expectations on this build. So with keep with Jason's pointers I am going to keep it simple. I am not going to be getting rid of those injectors because it was a good deal and I might be able to use them down the line.

Keep the critizim coming boyz. I want to do this right. So if I come up with a stupied idea like all my ideas have been so far, let me know.

Hey Tekkie,

I would like if you(others are more than welcome) to be there this spring when I do this. Thats if you want. You are the closest to Windsor. Also what about that Mx-6 IM?

[CrazyCaker]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kz9 @ Nov. 15 2005,11:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey Tekkie,

I would like if you(others are more than welcome) to be there this spring when I do this. Thats if you want. You are the closest to Windsor. Also what about that Mx-6 IM?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I wouldn't mind coming out to lend a hand, depending on when you'll be doing this.

[kz9]

Anyone is welcome to come. I will be a first for me.

[Aitch]

I'd come just to watch. I don't want to screw anything up! But I am a good source for beer.

[tekkie]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kz9 @ Nov. 15 2005,11:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Once again my bubble has been popped! Okay NOS no good on the turbo but I can still use it on the intercooler ring and the purge. I have the set-up so I might aswell use it.

Maybe I have to high expectations on this build. So with keep with Jason's pointers I am going to keep it simple. I am not going to be getting rid of those injectors because it was a good deal and I might be able to use them down the line.

Keep the critizim coming boyz. I want to do this right. So if I come up with a stupied idea like all my ideas have been so far, let me know.

Hey Tekkie,

I would like if you(others are more than welcome) to be there this spring when I do this. Thats if you want. You are the closest to Windsor. Also what about that Mx-6 IM?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
depends when your doing it, if I am free I can come help

NOS on the intercooler still = problems http://www.toprotege.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif your going to blow your motor with boost and NOS, its just a matter of when http://www.toprotege.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kz9]

How is spraying n2o on the intercooler going to be a problem?

Please explain. Because I don't see how it is. Corosion or something?

[cruisinblackp5]

I dont see N2O on the IC beinga problem but for the price and what you are using it for you might as well just use CO2,w hich will give you the same effect and no one will know the difference except your wallet

[kz9]

I should be able to use the n2o system with co2?

[kz9]

But I also think n2o is colder than co2?

[YP5 Toronto]

Once again...regardless of C02 or N20...the benefits are negligable.

On some high end setups (supras, wrxs, etc) they have seen gains of single digits whp. This is also assuming that the tuning on the setup is mint.

Moreover, we are in Canada....the temps are also cooler than average.

An intercooler spray is more for looks and &quot;points&quot; that is all...from a practical perspective.

USE C02.....save your money. If you want some &quot;rice&quot; add a purge to the CO2 intercooler spray....that way you it will seem like you are running FI + NOS when you pull up to a light and let the purge go.

[kwykryde]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (YP5 Toronto @ Nov. 16 2005,1:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Once again...regardless of C02 or N20...the benefits are negligable.

On some high end setups (supras, wrxs, etc) they have seen gains of single digits whp.  This is also assuming that the tuning on the setup is mint.

Moreover, we are in Canada....the temps are also cooler than average.

An intercooler spray is more for looks and &quot;points&quot; that is all...from a practical perspective.

USE C02.....save your money.  If you want some &quot;rice&quot; add a purge to the CO2 intercooler spray....that way you it will seem like you are running FI + NOS when you pull up to a light and let the purge go.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have to agree with Jason on this one aswell.  I have gone trhough two motors now running NOS.  I have never run anything extreme but esp with forced induction and nitrous, that is a recipe for disaster.  If you were to run the intercooler sprayer... C02 for sure...  $15 a bottle arther then spending the $60 a bottle for nitrous.  Still the gain will be minimal, the only advantages would be in the peak of summer when the temperatures are maxed out.  Relatively warm and cool days you will feel no gain.  As far as the &quot;show&quot; idea goes, I have attended and judged many shows and the points difference you would gain with NOS and Turbo as opposed to just Turbo is minimal once again.  Honestly most judges won't even be able to tell a proper nitrous set-up.  Anyways. just my 2 cents! http://www.toprotege.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[YP5 Toronto]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kwykryde @ Nov. 16 2005,2:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (YP5 Toronto @ Nov. 16 2005,1:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Once again...regardless of C02 or N20...the benefits are negligable.

On some high end setups (supras, wrxs, etc) they have seen gains of single digits whp.  This is also assuming that the tuning on the setup is mint.

Moreover, we are in Canada....the temps are also cooler than average.

An intercooler spray is more for looks and &quot;points&quot; that is all...from a practical perspective.

USE C02.....save your money.  If you want some &quot;rice&quot; add a purge to the CO2 intercooler spray....that way you it will seem like you are running FI + NOS when you pull up to a light and let the purge go.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have to agree with Jason on this one aswell.  I have gone trhough two motors now running NOS.  I have never run anything extreme but esp with forced induction and nitrous, that is a recipe for disaster.  If you were to run the intercooler sprayer... C02 for sure...  $15 a bottle arther then spending the $60 a bottle for nitrous.  Still the gain will be minimal, the only advantages would be in the peak of summer when the temperatures are maxed out.  Relatively warm and cool days you will feel no gain.  As far as the &quot;show&quot; idea goes, I have attended and judged many shows and the points difference you would gain with NOS and Turbo as opposed to just Turbo is minimal once again.  Honestly most judges won't even be able to tell a proper nitrous set-up.  Anyways. just my 2 cents! http://www.toprotege.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
dont even get me started on the level of expertise that we have in Ontario/Canada with regards to judging.....

[kz9]

Whatever, the n2o is going on. I don't care. I like it and that is all that matters. I guess it is just to say I have it.

Also, today I continued on the manifold re-build. I will aslo be doing the s-pipe since there is a lot of restriction due to poor welds. I think my welders are more exicted about doing this than I am. I have made the jigs they are going to be using. They say that the reason most manifolds crack like this is the procdure of welding them. It is ture. Welding create lots of stress. If you weld on side of the manifold without out it being secure in a properly made jig, then weld the other side, the complete weld will be pulled becasue of the heat. This intern, make stress.

If you secure it properly in a jig no stress is created because the metal has no where to go. Also you have to purge the inside with argon to minimalize the protuding weld.

It is going to be smooth as silk(well not silk) on the inside. Therefore the flow will be less restricted, making a more efficent set-up.

No one can even tell me I am wrong on this because I do this for a living. That is piping systems a lot more complex than a turbo. Actually I have done a exhaust and intake system on a CAT 24 piston Turbo generator a Fords. That was interesting.

[kwykryde]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (YP5 Toronto @ Nov. 16 2005,2:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
dont even get me started on the level of expertise that we have in Ontario/Canada with regards to judging.....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

LOL...

sound like a plan Jason... http://www.toprotege.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kz9]

How can I clean the inside of the turbo?

[YP5 Toronto]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kz9 @ Nov. 18 2005,12:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How can I clean the inside of the turbo?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
take it apart....

just remember how it goes back together.

be gentle with the fins.

[kz9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (YP5 Toronto @ Nov. 18 2005,4:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kz9 @ Nov. 18 2005,12:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How can I clean the inside of the turbo?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
take it apart....

just remember how it goes back together.

be gentle with the fins.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.toprotege.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif With luck so far I will break something.

Can't I use like brake cleanier or something?

I just want to get the carbon off. Then I will polish with emerycloth.

[kz9]

I just found a guy on AEMpowerforums that is running a ems. I pm'd him to find out the details. I will keep everyone informed.

[kz9]

I got those injectors in the mail today. How do I read this?

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_34_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_33_full.jpg

[kz9]

Well it been awhile since my post. I have been polishing my intake pipes. I am getting sick of this process, but it should look pretty sweet. I have the manifold and s-pipe ready for welding as soon as my fitting come in at work.

Goodies have been coming ion as well. HIDS, boost controller, timer, bottle opener, bottle bag.

Still waiting on my CF?

My new problem is that I can't source a MX-6 IM for cheap. I was woundering if you can just take out the VTCS? Anyone heard of this being done?

My TB is going out to my buddy to be bored this week. I told him to take it as wide as he can. probley 60mm+?

On a side note my beater keeps suckin up my buget for this project. I had to spend $700 last week to keep it alive. F'n s-10!

Posting more pics soon as my camera gets fixed also.

[Junior]

i want to know where the money tree's are that you and brian have... you guys gots loot yo, large loot.

[Scooter]

i want to know where the money tree's are that you and brian have... you guys gots loot yo, large loot.

ummmmm can I have some money?

[kz9]

I dounno? I'm just a plumber.

I don't spend money on anything else. Just the car.

[thekid]

My new problem is that I can't source a MX-6 IM for cheap. I was woundering if you can just take out the VTCS? Anyone heard of this being done?


I believe Wesman has done this to his car. I do think it led to some problems, but that could have been something else, might be worth dropping him a line to ask.

[kz9]

Not totally done, but I like the results so far.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_35_full.jpg

[kz9]

Working on one of the new gauge pods.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_37_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_38_full.jpg

Not totally done. But you get the picture.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_39_full.jpg

[CrazyCaker]

I like it. That's a pretty cool idea.

[kz9]

Ready for filler.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_40_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_41_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_43_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_44_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_45_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_47_full.jpg

[ChopstickHero]

^^

that's pretty sweet..... can't wait to see it installed

[Scooter]

nice! see how the p*ssy is already atracted to it :D

[kz9]

Its been awhile since I posted in here, but I thought it would be better to post my problem here.

I have been reading in some places that if I use my greddy pesssure sensor with my e-manage I won't need a clamp?

Also if I need a clamp does anyone have one forsale? Cash is tight right now because of the new home.

I have the old clamp that LOCKDOWNP5 was using on his setup. I think it is ES. Anyone know anything about that set-up?

[CrazyCaker]

According to Tekkie you will still need the clamp. I'm going to be using the Emang and clamp as well to start off.

[kz9]

what kinda clamp u usin?

I might just have to go get a Flyin' clamp

[tekkie]

I have not tried it without it, but everyone that used the emanage without it had problems

if you dont use it the ecu learns around it so your maps are going to be off

[CrazyCaker]

what kinda clamp u usin?

I might just have to go get a Flyin' clamp

I have the Flyin' one.

[kz9]

Well I started to rip apart the car today. I got the harness off, the intake off and exhaust off. Had a problem with the EGR tube on both the header and IM. What a bitch! I had to use a pipe wrench to get them both off. I think I will have to get a new one cause the nuts are pretty ripped up from the jaws.

Tomorrow I hopefully will have all of the tear down done by tomorrow. I still have not decided if I will just pull the engine or just prop it when I do my tranny work. Any suggestions on this? I know that it would be 100% easier to do my timing belt and water pump, as well the Ur pulley. Its just having to get a engine hoist or setting up some rigging to get it out.

I will also start to follow up each day with some pics. Hopefully all of my parts come in in time from my buddy and Brian.

Feels good to be workin on my car again!

[tekkie]

yeah you gotta love that EGR pipe what a pita that thing is to get at, a new egr pipe is about 80-90 bucks I think

As for the tranny its supposed to be pretty easy to do without the motor out there is a thread in the how to section on msprotege started by turfburn on it. I found it frustrating enough to put the tranny back on with the motor out so I am pretty sure I would never have the patience to do it while its still in the car.

you dont need to take the motor out to get at the UR pulley, if you take the wheel off you can get at it easily, easier when its out of course

[kz9]

Well so far I have done the timming belt/water pump.

Today I ripped into dropin the tranny. Man I had a ***k of a time, mostly cause I did not have the right support system. I did not put enough tilt on my stand so I could slip the tranny off. So, I had to re-lift the engine. This is when the whole thing started to take a dive on me. I was able to keep it from wreckin anything, but man! It was a lot of wieght, I was under the car too. (I had a buddy helpin too) :eek:

So anyways nothin is broken, I'm not hurt, and the tranny is on my floor.

I was wondering that when I take it apart if I can just leave it bell dowm and pull the gear house straight up? Or do I have to do it horzontally? Etheir way it has to be done. Its just looks easier the way it is sittin.

Workin on postin pics tonight.....

[kz9]

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_65_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_66_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_67_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_68_full.jpg

[Mike_Moss]

Looks good man! Nice work.

What are you doing to the tranny? Bell-housing down should be fine (as you have it in your last photo)

[CrazyCaker]

Looks like you're having fun dude lol! I'm going to start on a few things this weekend myself. Hopefully install my lsd, fidanza flywheel and stage 3 clutch... or something like that :p

[kz9]

***k!!!!

I followed the How-to on the MSp board about pulling the diff. But I can't get the roll pin out because it just wont come up enough on the shaft?

I know that I ***ked up by pullin a pin I wasn't suppose to, but that is just on the 5th gear lifter and not on the shift fork shaft. I have no clue what I am doing wrong, all I need is another 1/2 inch and then it will be accesible.

I AM GETTIN PISSED OFF! I messed around with it for at least 2hrs and can't get it....:confused:

[kz9]

AH thank god for mind smoke:D

I had to twist the shift linkage to 1st gear than it dropped the rest of the way so I could get the pin. Also fixed my other pin and removed the diff.

Next thing is that I don't know if I can reuse the bearing guides? I have got new one with the LSD but the old ones are in there and they look fine.

Whata think?

LSD off to get bearings pressed.... also I have no speedo gear? Maybe cause I have ABS?

[CrazyCaker]

LSD off to get bearings pressed.... also I have no speedo gear? Maybe cause I have ABS?

Yes it's because you have ABS. I was going to say I have one if you need it.

[snafu]

Looks sick man! You and Tekkie are going nuts!

[burlingtonprotege]

car looks amazing! i hope to be there 1 day.. but i think in about 2 years when i have the money i will drop a new engine in and boost that.. just learning about all the different engines now.. wanna see if a vvti would fit that thing boost to 10-12 psi would b about 280-300hp is my guess

[kz9]

Well its been awhile since I have been able to have some R&R time other than when I go to sleep. I have been working 12-18hrs a day 7 days a week for the last 3 weeks. Well all I have got the Tranny back in and the oil cooler hooked up, and today I was going to put together the driveline and new lower arms but ran into a problem.

The nut on the front bolt of the arm has broken off the little square washer that is meant to hold the dam thing. I was thinking of trying to weld the nut back into place so I can tightin it. I already had it torqued but had to untightin it for a stupied reason.

I don't know that it losened at all, cause it is still hard to turn it.

Any suggestions?


And oh ya..... at my rate, I might have it done by X-mas:(

[kz9]

:) http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_69_full.jpg

[Mike_Moss]

Hawt shit!

[RicecookerP5]

good job Kellan!

[tekkie]

yeah looks good man

[kz9]

Finally on the ground!

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_70_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_71_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_72_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/648000-648999/648116_73_full.jpg

[130pro5]

that a nice looking engine bay!

[tekkie]

looks awesome Kellan, I will see you on sat hopefully :)

[kz9]

Too bad I live too far away for the TO guys, cause could have made this a BBQ or something.

People are more than welcome to stop by this Sat if they want, but I doubt anyone would want to make the trip.

[kiwee]

good for you kellan. glad it is all in and looking like the original hawtnezz. i really didn't think your car could get any better from importfest to this year and now look! hahahahaha, well done!

[evil_y2k_twin]

I'm in Chatham this SAt if you want to drop by..lol

[Ruckuss]

What kind of ignition wires are you using?

[KDawgONE]

Kellan....are you gonna have it at the Windsor show on Sunday? Not sure if im gonna go to the show but i might be down to b-river to see my mom....is there something going on at your house with a bbq or sumthing <--too lazy to read thread...lol

BTW, we met at MOM2 and Xtacy2k4 (I had the white 2nd gen then....)

[kz9]

Have to work on Sunday. But you can stop by Sat?